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bbrown
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 6:54 am  Reply with quote
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What year did the Mod 97 Winchesters change from 2-9/16" chambers to 2-3/4" chambers?
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Researcher
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:38 am  Reply with quote



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According to Stadt, the Model 1897 was introduced in 16-gauge chambered for 2 9/16 inch shells in 1900. The Model 97 began being chambered for the 2 3/4 inch 16-gauge shell in 1931.

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bbrown
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 9:46 am  Reply with quote
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Thanks Researcher! I am looking at one and wanted to have my facts straight. I'll keep you posted. Very Happy
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deer hunter
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 12:23 pm  Reply with quote
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same generally applies to m12's and 97's ... if barrel is marked 23/4 , it is . if it isn't marked , it's short .

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Ole Cowboy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 1:40 pm  Reply with quote
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deer hunter wrote:
same generally applies to m12's and 97's ... if barrel is marked 23/4 , it is . if it isn't marked , it's short .


Sir, That is not true.
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Cheyenne08
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 4:32 pm  Reply with quote
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Ole Cowboy wrote:
deer hunter wrote:
same generally applies to m12's and 97's ... if barrel is marked 23/4 , it is . if it isn't marked , it's short .


Sir, That is not true.


I have to go with Ole Cowboy on this one, my first shotgun was a mod 97, that my Dad had used for years, ser # 681xxx, which means it was made in 1919.

He shot nothing but 2 3/4" in it and I have shot 2 3/4" in it till today, over 50 years in my possesion, no ftf or FTE, just keeps shucking them out, the barrel is not marked.

If it has a short chamber, it don't know it and eats 2 3/4" shells like candy.

I still have that shotgun. Smile

Dale

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deer hunter
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:26 pm  Reply with quote
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CHEY , OC - my 97 is number 867xxx ... it HAD a short chamber . Had it cut a million yrs ago by my old gunsmith .Didn't do the window . We've had this discussion about short chambers many times . It has never been much of a problem in m12's and really won't be a problem in 97's - too much metal in the barrel to be a problem . My 97 , if you looked at it , you would say it is a last model - not so . it has the last model stock(from a gunshow) , a wide foreend(from a wood shop in calif) and a cerrated hammer (from a late model 12 ga) . Also has most of the original blue . Still is late mumbered and had the chambered lengthened ... I've had something around 35 - 40 16's of these guns - every one goes by if the chamber is marked or not. my 1st couple were short and didn't matter - shot all kindsa hell thru them. stretched out the brass and split it occasionally , but no one mentioned the difference till later in life . I've been wrong before - just ask wifey ! This is what I'de go by . Just sayin ! Cheers !

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Ole Cowboy
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:41 pm  Reply with quote
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deer hunter wrote:
CHEY , OC - my 97 is number 867xxx ... it HAD a short chamber . Had it cut a million yrs ago by my old gunsmith .Didn't do the window . We've had this discussion about short chambers many times . It has never been much of a problem in m12's and really won't be a problem in 97's - too much metal in the barrel to be a problem . My 97 , if you looked at it , you would say it is a last model - not so . it has the last model stock(from a gunshow) , a wide foreend(from a wood shop in calif) and a cerrated hammer (from a late model 12 ga) . Also has most of the original blue . Still is late mumbered and had the chambered lengthened ... I've had something around 35 - 40 16's of these guns - every one goes by if the chamber is marked or not. my 1st couple were short and didn't matter - shot all kindsa hell thru them. stretched out the brass and split it occasionally , but no one mentioned the difference till later in life . I've been wrong before - just ask wifey ! This is what I'de go by . Just sayin ! Cheers !


If your 97 is a 16 ga., they did have short chambers until 1931. All 12 ga. M97s have 2 3/4" chambers, marked or not.
16 gauge Model 12s were changed to 2 3/4" in 1926, but not all were not marked until into the '30s.
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deer hunter
PostPosted: Tue Oct 11, 2011 7:46 pm  Reply with quote
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oc - I agree completely - I've just not run across the ones that weren't ! 16's are a different breed ! the gun described above is the only 16ga 97 I have now . 12 gas' are another whole matter !


Last edited by deer hunter on Wed Oct 12, 2011 9:10 am; edited 1 time in total

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bandmiller2
PostPosted: Wed Oct 12, 2011 5:00 am  Reply with quote



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My solid frame 12ga. 97 had a short chamber,in my youth I fed her the biggest baddest duck loads I could find[2 3/4"].Later in life I discovered it had a short chamber when I tried a chamber gauge.Bought a Brownells long forceing cone/chamber legnth reamer simple to use and removes little metal.Only thing I noticed was slightly less recoil, whole thing is a rather minor issue. Frank C.

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shortstroke
PostPosted: Thu Oct 13, 2011 6:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Oct 2010
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Location: Vermont

a guy i used to shoot with had a 16 ga model 12 that was marked 2 3/4 but it was actually 2 9/16 inch so he had the chamber opened up. he never knew it was marked 2 3/4 I think it was an old riot gun version that held 7 shells

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Del Mc Cubbin
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 7:44 pm  Reply with quote



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Many older guns may be marked 2 3/4 or not but will be about a 1/16 in. short when measured with a chamber gauge. The reason is that these guns were made to be used with paper shells with card wads. They wanted the shell to open into the forcing cone and make the jump for the over powder wad as short as posible. Tests have been made and firing plastic shells in these semi short chambers made little increase in pressure.
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Ole Cowboy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 8:24 pm  Reply with quote
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That's right. The actual 12 gauge chamber was a bit short on the early guns, but technically they were still 2 3/4" and they worked fine with 2 3/4" shells.
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bbrown
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 11:43 am  Reply with quote
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Update: the 16ga Model 97 I am looking at is made in 1908. Definitely short chambers. I have several old boxes of 2-9/16" papers that would run through it fine. It is 28" barrel and all original. Pretty brown patina, but that doesn't bother me. I'll look into the chamber reamer. That might be a good solution.

Thanks,
Ben
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skeettx
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 12:36 pm  Reply with quote
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Ben
Great report

and more options

Leave it like it is and shoot

http://www.rstshells.com/rst_classic_shotshells_shotshells.htm

I really like shooting 2 1/2 inch ammo through my Win Model 12 pump guns.

Mike
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