16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Guns  ~  Lovena 16ga double
britgun
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 3:32 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT

I picked up that 16ga Lovena from George at GulfCoastGuns. He has marked everything down and I had been looking at that gun for years but it was way too spendy. He finally budged enough to make a run at it. It has Belgian proofs, and appears to be very well made. Says "Lovena" and "Prague" on the barrels. Excellent wood and engraving.

Does anybody out there know anything about the history of Lovena and what particular Belgian maker this Czech outfit may have gotten their guns from? Is Lovena still in business?

Thanks a lot,

Duncan
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
dukxdog
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2012 5:14 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 13 Apr 2009
Posts: 328
Location: Idaho & South Dakota

I watched that gun for quite awhile. Looked nice and I'm glad to hear it has a good home.
I believe Lovena is a trade name and not a maker. I could be mistaken though.
Good luck with it!

_________________
"A gun should be a thing of beauty, something which gives its owner pride and pleasure. For that reason, most men will buy the best gun they can afford. With a good gun on his arm, a man becomes a sporting gentleman, both on the field and off."
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
pudelpointer
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 7:38 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Lancaster county, Pa

I know I'm a little slow but when did you arrive back on the scene britgun? Anyway welcome back.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
britgun
PostPosted: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:59 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT

actually, your pretty quick, pudel, as I just posted last night! How y'all doin?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
canvasback
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 1:53 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

I have a Lovena as well. However, and I know this is heresy here, it's a 12 gauge. When I was researching it, I came across the Lovena at Gulf Coast, so I know your gun....looks very nice.

I have some information about Lovena that I will gather and post shortly.

Here's a pic


_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
canvasback
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

The following was put together by Ellenbr from the DGBB

"Janecek of Praha seems to be somehow involved. Take this with a couple grains of salt as info is somewhat difficult to find or vet. But circa 1930 F. Janccek had facilities in Reichenberg and Praha and was somehow connected to Lovena. I can't say if F. Janccek/Janecek/Janceka's Lovena was one in the same but there are some catalogs for sale:
Lovena Bachsenmacher-Fachunternehmungen from http://www.ilab.org/db/book2445_A%202414.html .

If it was Frantisek Janecek, he was born in Klaster in January 1878 and served in the Austro-Hungarian Army during WWI and transferred for a brief stint in the Czechoslovakian Army in 1919 before founding a precision tool & die shop in Mnichovo Hradiste, which failed and sent him back to making weapons, ammo and transport vehicles in Prague. There must have been some sort of connection.

Lovena appears to have migrated toward airguns, auto components, springs, etc.:
http://www.lovena.vyrobce.cz/
http://www.spcr.cz/en/dynamic/clen_detail.php?vyrobek=361100&sel=1 (select "Production" to see ammo & weapons")

At some point Lovena had a warehouse in Ostrava, and possibly other locations, but became a People's Cooperative for Gun making/Rifle making, previously being a "Hunting Arms Dealership" or firearms merchant which may explain the guns made in Belgium. Early on they seemed to have sourced components from England.

From what little I know of it, the monetary assets of the makers were commandeered by the State. Possibly for a statue amount of time the State may have allowed the original makers, or their heirs and assigns, to maintain their shop and continue production. The in the 1950s or 1960s it appears to have been nationalized and headed in the direction of a Communist people's cooperative.

In the 1960s and 1970s, orders for new cutlery and guns were taken at the various satellite offices, possibly in other cities beside Prague such as Plzen, and processed at the Lovena facility at the supervision of a master of sorts. Small tasks such as sharpening and repair were performed at the satellite shops. A copy of the "Czechoslovak Cooperator" from the 1960s or 1970s possibly would shed some light on the subject."

_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
canvasback
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 2:13 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

And here are some additional comments from ellenbr as we were trying to figure out when and where it was made. The conclusion I drew from all this and the gun itself is that Lovena made some very high quality guns but that it is very difficult to figure out where, when and by whom exactly.

Hope you like yours!

"“I'm curious why it was proofed 5 times, with 4 being in the Czech Republic. It is a fine example by the craftsmen in Weipert, probably either just before WWI or during it.

My guess is that it was sourced from Wenzel Morgenstern, who would have sourced the components and may have sub’d the work. About this time his masters numbered a few over a baker's dozen for assembly work. The engraving, the side-frame reinforcement as well as the rose & scroll engraving are similar to those of Wenzel Morgenstern.

Then it went to Suhl, Germany and was proofed pre-1923 before the Germans assumed control of the Weipert facility circa 1940, still allowing the proof-house to use the escutcheon of the falling fir tree (which one can see very well on these stamps) topped with either 2 crossed hammers.

With the "Eagle Crown/S" high on the tubes, I wonder if the tubes were sourced from Germany and this accounts for the lack of the Weipert preliminary stamp of an intertwined script "E" "W"? Although that doesn't really make any sense.

Poldi Anticorro/Antikorro/AK arrived on the scene circa 1910 so it was completed post 1910. Quite the puzzle as it seems there are some Weipert preliminary marks missing or the tubes experienced preliminary proof elsewhere before arriving in Weipert. It is also missing the Weipert Nitro stamp. Maybe it was ordered in the white from Suhl prior to 1923??? I've seen that mark on the lower rib before but can't place it at the moment. The frame still makes me want to hold with Wenzel Morgenstern for now.

It was brought to my attention that it also has side-clips. There really wasn't anything short about this long-arm. 8 pin sidelock, stocked to the fences, etc.

Poldi Antikorro/Anticorro was one of the early stabs at stainless steel and it took several applications to get the tubes in an acceptable steady state of bluing. To tell the truth I don't know exactly how it would age.

With the position of the pin in the forend iron, I'd guess the ejectors were of the H & H(Holland & Holland) variety being Patent No. 800 of 1893. A picture of the forend iron might aide in the determination. .

I've pondered the puzzle off and on today and hoped that Felix would set us on the straight and narrow as I really have a difficult time believing that the long-arm was sourced from Suhl as it has all the hallmarks, including the Purdey nose & sculpted baskül or fences, of a Weipert sourced long-arm with the components from Wenzel Morgenstern who may have subcontracted the work to the firm Nobert Schmidl with Josef Hoffman the elder with his son Josef Hoffman the younger at the helm by the time the Germans were in control of the Weipert proof-house facility. Wenzel Morgenstern's serial number sequence would have been in the 6000 range during WWI. Is there any such serial number on the forend? The lack of preliminary Weipert stamps along with the full monty of 1912-1923 Suhl stamps makes for quite the puzzle."

_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
britgun
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 5:34 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT

Thanks very much for this info. Your gun is gorgeous, as well... and a full sidelock to boot!!

Yeah, the info is so sketchy on these things, it would be interesting to know when it was mfgd. Maybe the belgian proof marks on it could help. The guy at Gulf Coast says that there are some Francotte proofs on it, too, but he thinks they're fake. I can't tell. they look a little "fresher" than the others, but its not by much, really. Unsolved mystery....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
canvasback
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 7:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

I'm not competent do really do it myself, but I think if you post all the proofs and other markings on Double Gun BB you will get a number of very knowledgeable people doing their best to nail down a date and a place.

_________________
1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
britgun
PostPosted: Wed Apr 04, 2012 8:44 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Jan 2007
Posts: 1043
Location: Bozeman, MT

Thanks, I'll break out the digital.....
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 1 of 1
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Guns

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09