16ga.com ~ View topic

William Larkin Moore & Co. states that they are now selling B. Rizzini 16ga guns on a dedicated 16ga frame. I've handled an Aurum Classic and recently bought an Aurum Light. Except for the weight, they felt the same. How can I tell if I have a 6 pound gun but a 12ga frame? None of the local gunshops have 12ga Rizzini's; only 20 and 28\.410. I could see and feel the much smaller frame on the 28\.410. The 20 Classic felt like the 16 Classic.

Not only Rizzini but for all makes of O\U; what is the rule of thumb? Is there a measurement to check like there is for length of pull?

The best guideline is the overall weight. Frame size means nothing if it weighs the same as a 12 ga frame. Figure the average weight of a properly proportioned 16 ga. steel framed hinge gun at 6-1/2 lbs plus or minus 4 ounces. A properly propportioned pump gun will fall in that weigh range too. Steel framed auto loaders are a bit heavier. Alloy recievers will lower the weight.

The most important aspect of this business is how does the gun feel in your hands. Having the lightest gun does not mean its the best gun for you.

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

From a practical standpoint, I'd mostly agree with Guy. I recently had a Traditions "Real 16" (so named because it's built on a scaled 16ga frame) Gold for field test. Regardless of the frame size, it weighed over 7 pounds. With 16 gauge barrels mated to a 12 gauge frame, but with an alloy receiver--as B. Rizzini uses (or used) on some of its 16's--you'll get a gun that's a good bit lighter than that.

But if you're interested in comparing frame sizes, probably the most consistent measurement to take is between the firing pin holes. Works for both OU's and sxs.

Guest

For fun, this might be worth a try if a shop has both the 16 Riz and a 12 Beretta:

Set the 16 Riz next to a 12 gauge Beretta, both of 'em with the bottom of the receiver facing you. The actions are pretty similar, so the receiver widths should be a tell. Eyeball them. Just my experience, but I'd think a true 16 will be thinner across the receiver than the 12. Not a ton, but easily noticable to the naked eye. (Although false side plates on one gun or the other could throw this little "test" off by a bit.)

I suggest this because, in my safe, I've got my F.A.I.R 16 smack-a** between a 20 ga B.Riz and 12 ga, Beretta. I can hunker down and run my eyeballs across all three and see the progression. It's sort of neat ... or I'm just easily amused, which is entirely possible.

And, sigh, that Citori-loving 16gg is right again: It's all about the feel in the hands and whether it comes sweetly up to your cheek and shoulder (and then shoots where you look). If it turns out your shooting a 16 with an alloy receiver on a 12 gauge frame but it's still making you smile and you're putting down birds, why let a few millimeters one way or the other affect your joy?

The search for the grail can be fun, but a good gun's still a good gun.

So sayeth some goofball in Illinois (me). Razz

I haven't been able to shoot the Aurum Light with all this rain we've been having here in eastern PA lately, but it does seem to come to my shoulder and eye very well in a static test. It weighs 6 pounds even; with the alloy frame and straight stock.

I measured the distance between firing pins. Here are the measurements, as best as I could:

12ga citori--0.975"

16ga rizzini--0.880"

Is this conclusive?

Member Joined: 26 Apr 2005 Posts: 743

Certainly sounds like different frame sizes. But a more accurate comparison would be a 12ga Citori to a 16ga Citori, 12ga Rizzini to 16ga Rizzini.

One problem with looking at the width of an OU frame is that different designs bolt in different ways and in different places. The new Cynergy, for example, has all its bolting on the sides. That makes it a very low profile gun, but somewhat thicker than others. Merkels do all their bolting on the top and bottom, and while they're often quite light and not very wide, they have a much higher profile than a Cynergy, or than most any Italian gun. (The Italians in particular have focused on low profile OU's.)

Guest

I'm pretty sure the Aurum Light is an alloy receivered, 12 ga. gun. I'd guess, though I don't know for certain, that the two models William Larkin Moore recently began offering are newly imported, dedicated frame guns and different than the Aurum Light model. Examining one of those next to an Aurum light would almost certainly tell the tale.

Larry's absolutely right about different lockup systems yielding different receiver widths and saying a Rizzini/Rizzini comparison would be the best. However, the man said the shop didn't have all the guns he needed for apples-to-apples, hands-on comparisons. I suggested looking at a Beretta (68X series) next to the Rizzinis because I know most shops have 68X series around, and I know the size of the receiver and overall lines of the gun on a 12 ga (alloy or steel) Beretta will visibly show up next to both common makes of Rizzini in 16 or 20. It's certainly not scientific, just a little something to do with someone else's guns on a rainy day for a little visual edification ... in other words, just for the heck of it.

And, by the way, I am by no means disparaging alloy-receivered O/Us. My 686S Ultralight with the Onyx (black matte) finish has been a great field gun. I think I' picked it up in '99, and I know I'll hold on to it for many a moon. You don't want to let up on the swing with a gun that light, 'cause the gun's not going to give you any help ... but for a 12, it's a pretty sweet-handling gun and very nice to carry. One of my brothers keeps trying to hand me his regular 686 Onyx and hold onto my UL after we stop for a break. I remind him I did go to school, even if it was a state school. Then I make him hand over my ultralight.

I made a day trip to the Hamburg Cabelas fancy gun room to pick the brains of their employees. I did not take my gun along. No Batista Rizzini's to be found. In any gauge.

It should give you some kind of relevance to know that both gun guys used tape measures to check the distance between firing pins; an F.lli Rizzini in 20ga had a wider distance than a 16ga FAIR Rizzini 900. Go figure. By feel, the 20 WAS a smaller frame than mine. The other 16 was about the same except the grip area was somewhat thinner. But that could be attributed to two different makers. Those Rizzini's were pre-2003 manufacture cause they had the Maine importers stamp on them; New England Firearms, I think.

They had about 5 or 6 of the 900's in 16 ga. It seems Cabelas bought out the remaining inventory of a failing distributor. They sold all the 12's and 20's, and a few of the 16's. These and a few 28 Cesar Gueinin's are all that remain.

So, still no definitive answer.

MGF,
I held both an Aurum Classic 16 and my Aurum light, but not at the same time. Except for the different feel of the POW stock vs. the straight stock, and the lighter weight, there was no difference. FYI, my gun was made on July 29th of last year. I don't know if that qualifies it as 'newly imported.'

Guest

"Is the main question here whether you've got a true or dedicated frame 16?"

Exactly. When someone posted the William Larkin Moore & Co. website, that they were selling 'dedicated 16ga frame' guns, I got interested. I like what I got but was just curious if other than William Larkin Moore & Co. sold Rizzini's on a true 16 frame. I thought I'd get a simple yes or no answer. I should have known better. I try to be an informed consumer and if I show the gun to someone, I'd like to be as accurate about its features as I can.