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| < 16ga. General Discussion ~ Gun Fitting |
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 Posted:
Thu Jan 09, 2014 4:00 pm
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1863
Location: Wisconsin
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Does anyone know if there is a rule of thumb in the conversion of LOP as measured on a SxS translates to an O/U or pump/semi-auto?
Thanks, Reno |
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If you speak ill of farmers, don't do it with your mouth full. |
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| Posted:
Thu Jan 09, 2014 5:10 pm
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Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 680
Location: MAINE
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| My SXS's must be 15 -15 1/8 with double triggers . My other guns , single triggers at 14 1/2 will work but I prefer them to be 14 3/4 . My gunfitter agrees with me on single triggers having less LOP . YMMV |
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Thu Jan 09, 2014 7:11 pm
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1863
Location: Wisconsin
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I'm rated at 15-15.25 on SxS and shoot 14" model 12's well and 14 and 3/8" on O/U's and wonder if I could do better with 14.5 or more. I'm so confused, I've always been a little dyslexic that way.
Anyone else?
Reno |
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If you speak ill of farmers, don't do it with your mouth full. |
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Thu Jan 09, 2014 9:46 pm
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 7:32 am
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Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Location: SW Ohio
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| My 12ga Beretta semi auto is 14.25, my 16ga A5 is 14.75+ both feel perfect. |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 8:44 am
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1863
Location: Wisconsin
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| I wish it were more scientific than that. I know I have guns that fit me better than others. Maybe single trigger guns should be longer because their triggers are located in the rear of the guard? Anybody given much thought to this? I'm ignorant. Reno |
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If you speak ill of farmers, don't do it with your mouth full. |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:48 am
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Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Sun Aug 11, 2019 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 9:56 am
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1863
Location: Wisconsin
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| That's advice I can use and replicate. Reno |
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If you speak ill of farmers, don't do it with your mouth full. |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 10:15 am
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Joined: 07 Aug 2013
Posts: 163
Location: Utah
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| Two Pipe Shoot wrote: |
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I wish it were more scientific than that. I know I have guns that fit me better than others. Maybe single trigger guns should be longer because their triggers are located in the rear of the guard? Anybody given much thought to this? I'm ignorant. Reno
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I think gun fitting is more art than science.
My next statement will sound contradictory to my first. Gun fit is pretty straight up geometry relating to several anchor points and their relationship to each other. Those points are your: eye, shoulder, cheek and rib/barrel. When you mount your shotgun the butt should hit your shoulder and cheek the same each and every time you mount and your eye should be looking down the rib at the target such that when the trigger is pulled the shot hits the target.
The most critical dimensions is the drop and cast to face. If those dimensions stay the same from gun to gun to gun you are most of the way there. The shotgun needs to come up hit your shoulder pocket and cheek such that you don’t need to wiggle your head around each and every time.
Length of pull is more about comfort and ease of gun mount. The length of pull needs to be long enough your trigger hand isn’t hitting your nose when the gun recoils. It also needs to be short enough that you can mount the gun smoothly and exactly the same every time without the butt hanging up on your arm pit and clothing. Double trigger guns we measure from the front trigger. It will be a little longer than single trigger guns because we stretch our trigger finger reach for the front trigger so it hits the pad and we can slip our trigger finger back to the back trigger comfortably WITHOUT MOVING OUR HAND on the stock. On a single trigger gun you don’t need that extra stretch so LOP can be a little shorter.
Due to the fact were all built different you can’t just give a gun maker your drop and cast to face measurement. There are too many variables that are individual to each of us. The gun maker can deal with being given length of pull, drop at comb, cast, drop at heel, etc. Those dimensions are all related to the gun. If you look at those measurements they form triangles. Change any of the dimensions and you change the angles in the triangles. Most combs slope down to the heel. As you increase the length of pull your cheek will hit further back down that slope which will drop your eye in relationship to the barrel and how you see the target. To keep your drop at face the same you need to decrease the drop at comb and heel as LOP increases. If you change one dimension you need to change all the others to keep drop at face the same.
I have an old Parker with what we all would call horrible dimensions. It has original measurements of: 13 ¼ in. LOP, 2 in. DAC, 3 3/8 in. DAH with about 3/8 in. of cast off. It is short and has a pretty steep sloping comb but my cheek hits in just the right spot for a picture perfect look down the barrels and at the target. It hits where I look because my drop at face is correct. Now to the down side. It is kind of painful to shoot. It smacks my cheek hard and my thumb is against my nose. It would be much more comfortable with 1 inch more length of pull and a lot less drop but it works even with its bad dimensions. I prefer measurements of 14 3/8 in. LOP, 1 ½ in. DAC, 2 3/8 in. DAH with about a ¼ inch cast off. In the depths of winter, when I wear a heavy coat, I’ll pick a gun that is just a little shorter with a wee bit more drop; keeping my eye where it belongs. Once LOP goes much past 14 ½ inches I have trouble with the heel hanging up on my clothing as I mount the gun. I could alter my mount to more of a push the gun forward and bring it back to my shoulder and face but altering my mount, I’m pretty lucky. I must be what someone, once upon a time, thought was average. Most off the rack guns come darn close to what fits me.
Here is the art part of the equation of gun fitting. A great fitter will watch you shoot. They will study your mount, where you hold the fore end, how you swing, they want to know what you plan to shot with your gun, do you shoot pre mounted or low gun. The fitter’s goal is to have the gun hit what you look at and have fit your style and mount with comfort. There are so many variables that it takes an artist to work them all out. Go to three fitters you will likely get slightly different dimensions. Take a trap gun for fitting and then ask to be fit for your upland grouse slayer wand and you likely will get different dimensions.
Okay that was my ramble for the day...carry on. |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:05 am
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Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1863
Location: Wisconsin
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Yet more good information to process. I'm a visual learner and your descriptions help me understand your theory. That's helpful to think I may have been on the right track to begin with. I'm looking at a CG Evo model with a single trigger and 14.75" LOP, and now know I can't buy one unless I spend some time mounting one.
I need to demo one at a range one day. A round bodied two pipe will be the last gun I buy for myself. One day...
Reno |
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If you speak ill of farmers, don't do it with your mouth full. |
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| Posted:
Fri Jan 10, 2014 11:10 am
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Member
Joined: 19 Jan 2008
Posts: 680
Location: MAINE
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| Mike and Bill ..... well spoken . |
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 11, 2014 3:17 am
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2350
Location: West MI
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| Great info! & that last paragraph in Mike C's second post is pretty much bible for how/why I adjust my guns. |
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 11, 2014 6:16 am
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Good stuff. I know there is a school of thought regarding the LOP and having real longish LOPs. That has never worked out in practice for me in the field. Give me an LOP length that I can accurately mount in field conditions 100% of the time without it being so short my thumb hits my nose. I can get by with a little longer LOP at the range if needed. Of course the drop and cast need to be right.
Good luck, Reno. |
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:28 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Feb 2006
Posts: 450
Location: Indiana
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| Last summer I purchased a stock fitters guide. The book is very well written. If you are interested I could look up the author an pm the info. If I remember right the cost was 35$. Well worth it. Bill |
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| Posted:
Sat Jan 11, 2014 7:57 am
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Member
Joined: 25 Jun 2008
Posts: 1863
Location: Wisconsin
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| That would be great, thanks! Reno |
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If you speak ill of farmers, don't do it with your mouth full. |
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