16ga.com ~ View topic - Proof in the Pudding....or....Belly Up to the Bar.

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Ok, I'm officially confused. Need some help with European proof marks.
Here are the 3 16 ga guns causing my consternation.
1. Spanish sxs proved in 1963 @ 900 bars
2. English sxs proved in 1992 @900 bars
3. Spanish sxs proved in 1999 @ 1200 bars

It's my understanding that the guns are stamped with the max. service load pressure. Yes?
If so, this translates to 13,053 and 17,404 psi!!! Shocked

Both are way over Saami for 16 ga.
What average ammo pressure level would be suitable for a steady diet at each of these proof levels?

Thanks
Pete

I know this isn't exactly what you need, but this is a link to a speed and pressure (both BAR and PSI) chart for B&P shells. You can, at least, get an idea of the appropriate load for your guns. It also makes an incomplete, but helpful, conversion table for BAR vs. PSI.
http://www.bandpusa.com/files/db_trio.pdf

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Dang with the belly up to the bar statement I was interested--I'm moving on now Wink

Pete,

Glad you are asking this question. It is one I have been thinking about asking myself.

I also have a couple Spanish SxS's. The AyA 4/53 16ga. made in 2003 says it is proofed for 1370 bars. Since 1 bar equals 14.5 psi that means the gun is proofed for 19,865 psi Exclamation

An old 12ga AyA Yeoman that was made in the early 70's is stamped 900 Kgs. This follows the same row of symbols that the newer gun has but I don't understand the Kgs instead of bars unless somehow it was a mistake or they were marking them differently then. I am not concerned about the 16ga. as I am sure it will handle any load I am brave enough to shoot in a gun that weighs 6#-4oz, but I sure would like to know what the 12ga is safe to shoot. Might want to use it someday to shoot a pheasant and am wondering if it is safe for a 1 1/4oz 1220fps "piqeon load" of 10,000psi or less. Am waiting for the lightning bolt to strike after typing that last sentence Laughing

Hope someone can help us here.

Dennis

*Last edited by brdhnt on Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:54 pm; edited 1 time in total*

Dennis,

Kgs is kilograms of pressure (millegrams per square centimeter x 1000) instead of pounds per square inch. If my conversion calculations are correct (.04 squared x 1000 x 2.2 x 900) 900 Kgs should equal about 13,080 PSI. There was a conversion table for this in one of the Hodgdon books a few years back, but I can't find the table (or the book) right now.

I would recommend calling Hodgden powder. One of their tech people should be able to do the calculations and tell you exactly what the proof is on your gun in psi.

TMB
________
FERRARI 512 HISTORY

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Square Load,
About the only thing I'm pretty sure of in this topic is that 900 Kgs = 900 bar.
Some older guns are marked with the kgs, while since about '89 the European proof standards adopted the bar nomenclature. I think. Smile

Pete

Joined: 18 Sep 2005 Posts: 10 Location: Columbia, Missouri

From this page: http://www.sengpielaudio.com/calculatorPressure.htm

1 kgf/cm^2 = 0.9804 bar = 14.223 psi

This is largely on par with Pete's observation.

Kilogram force is a contrived unit much like the US pound force. It is the force exerted by one kilogram under earth's gravity. The US system actually has a true unit for force called the slug which is the poundforce divided by the gravitational acceleration.

Bar is a true unit of pressure equal to Pascal/100,000. Were it to exist, the true pressure unit in the US system would be the ssi, or slug per square inch. Conveniently, this unit could also be used to describe the population density of slimy critters.

Wow

,

Not only do we have a great bunch of guys here, we also appear to have some very intelligent ones. Wink

Thanks for the great answers everyone. Your responses certainly answered my question. My exposure to European guns is very limited and my knowledge of the Metric System is even worse, although I can use conversion tables when I know which formula to use. Sometimes that is the problem.

Thanks again,

Dennis

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Just bringing this back to the top of the list, since the subject has been resurrected (sorry Drew) in other threads.

Pete

Member Joined: 18 Nov 2005 Posts: 398 Location: S Fl

Larry Brown has resolved a large portion of my quandary in this thread on the Doublegun BBS.
http://gunshop.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=024107

I can't say it's crystal clear, but it's certainly less muddy than it was.
Thanks, Larry.

Pete