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Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

Why is there a difference in load statistics between cheddite 2 1/2 hulls and RST cheddite 2 1/2 hulls. I am looking at the 7/8 oz loads using Universal and sg16 wads.

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

here are the loads:
Cheddite 2 1/2-7/8 oz 19.5 Universl ,ched209, sg16, 1125, 7300psi,

RST cheddite, 7/8, 17 gr Universal, ched209, sg16, 1250fps, 8000psi
can anyone enlighten me, thanks
harold

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2349 Location: West MI

Is the 1125 in the first recipe copied correctly? Are both loads crimped the same?

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

yes, I copied the numbers correctly. The cheddite load is listed as from Hogdons and the RST cheddite is listed as "16 gauge forum".
Life sure would be a lot simpler if I shot a 12 ga. semi-auto--but it wouldn't be as much fun--you should see the Ithaca grade 3 Lewis with beautiful chain link Damascus I just picked up.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2349 Location: West MI

I'll bet she's a beaute, pics available?

Simpler, maybe, but I'm guessing anyone who salutes the bird of thunder appreciates the pains and gains of a challenge.

Thanks for clarifying, no offence intended, simply sorting out the details. Are the 2 loads/recipes crimped the same?

Are you certain they are exactly the same hull? Read; wall thickness and base wad profiles exactly the same. As mentioned in another thread and spelled out in most reloading manuals about component swapping; any difference in components can make big differences.

If they are crimped alike and exactly the same hull. Is it the different powder charges and the inversely related speeds and pressures that are scrambling your egg's? e.g. more should = more...

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

they are both fold crimped. I just assumed all cheddite shells are the same. The Winchetsr cheddites are interchangeable with the regular cheddites(2 3/4). I was under the impression that the RST cheddite hulls and 2 1/2 cheddites were the same.
The Ithaca is a 12, and I can post pictures as long as that doesn't get me banned from the 16ga forum(just joking). They are posted on the Parker forum under the other vintage doubles forum.
Oh, by the way, no offense taken, we are both just trying to make some sense of this data. I have several pounds of Universal and was just looking for a way to use it in low pressure loads for a couple Damascus 16's, a Parker GH and a Lefever G.

Joined: 28 Aug 2008 Posts: 19 Location: Albion, PA

Are the wads the same?

Best keep in mind the test results obtained from the same supposedly exact load by different professional ballistic labs can and often do vary considerably. Personal loading techniques, differences in reloading and testing equipment, slight differences in components from lot to lot, etc. will always come into play.

Perhaps the best thing to do is to bisect a couple of each hull and closely examine and compare the interior dimensions. Mike the thickness of the hull walls at equal intervals all the way from the base to the hull mouths. Also, compare the relative suppleness of the plastic tubing of each as best you can. If the two hulls are about identical in all aspects, then hypothetically, they should produce closely similar ballistic results when all components are the same. However, I wouldn't count on it. There are always too many other variables in play here.

I think it's important to always sort hulls by brand and even production lots of considerably different ages in order to maintain load consistency. Production lots of hulls of the same brand and type will often produce noticeably different results with the same loading recipe. Just how it is.

This is not to say I don't swap closely similar hulls whwn all else is equal. I often do. I simply keep the hulls sorted by brand and, if possible, by production lots and never mix them together. Doing so allows me to make slight adjustments to my press as needed. I also load only moderate loads which produce mid-range average load pressures when doing so. This way, I can't get into trouble when variables might cause average load pressures to be too low or high. I can also tweak the powder charge weights up or down if my initial results indicate I probably should. All this helps me to maintain a reasonable degree of uniformity and consistancy.

My best advice is to choose a moderate pressure load based on the average of various published results and try it out. Evaluate it based on your success in loading it and how it shoots in your personal guns (also a factor). Keep the ones which suit you and don't worry about it past this point. Shot shell reloading has never been an exact science. Probably never will be either. There are simply too many variables in play. Just how it is. Hope my input helps. Good luck.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

thanks Mike for your continued interest. I had obtained that from the spreadsheets and the RST load was attributed to the 16ga forum. I went back in the spreadsheets this morning and saw where that load now has been crossed out--has a red line thru it.

Member Joined: 06 Nov 2005 Posts: 328

When I am out shooting or hunting, I can't tell the difference in a 100fps load.
Maybe I hit the target with the leading edge of the shot string with the faster load or maybe I hit the target with the trailing edge of the shot string with the slower load.
I don't know. And I don't think about either. I just concentrate on the target.

Only looking at a difference of 300 psi. they both will shoot in my guild 16ga.

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

3 Crosses,
I agree with you 100% on the velocity. I only shoot moderate loads.
The confusing part is that the almost 2.5 gr difference in powder doesn't make sense. I'd shoot it in a guild gun also, but all I've seen are fluid steel and Iam shooting Damascus guns.