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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ primer size |
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Posted:
Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:28 am
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Member
Joined: 14 Apr 2014
Posts: 5
Location: North West Missouri
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I have a question, are cheddite primers the same size as all the other 209 primers(Win, Rem, Fed, CCI) |
_________________ Terry |
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Posted:
Tue Apr 15, 2014 12:32 pm
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Member
Joined: 02 Sep 2010
Posts: 829
Location: SW Ohio
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Some say their are a bit wider and the primer pocket may be loose for other primers like Winchester. However, I buy cheditte hulls primed with cheditte primers, load them for clays, then reload them using Winchester primers and have never had a loose primer. You can re-condition the primer pocket but I have never seen a need for that. |
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Posted:
Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:21 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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209 primers vary a bit according to what the manufacturers think is correct. My very best advice is to carefully mike your spent primers and log the diameters. Then you will have a reference. Saves a lot of guess work and avoids depending on opinions which may or may not work for you. |
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Posted:
Tue Apr 15, 2014 1:50 pm
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Member
Joined: 03 Dec 2006
Posts: 759
Location: Somewhere in the Socialist State of Minnesota
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Cheddite 209 shotshell primers (1000/box)
The Cheddite 209 is a great multi-purpose 209 primer.
Very consistent in our ballistic testing results
The only 209 primer with a lacquer sealant on the top of the primer
Standard U.S. size
Box of 1000 or case of 5000 |
_________________ http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/reloading16gauge/
Minnesota Gun Owners http://gocra.org/ |
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Posted:
Tue Apr 15, 2014 9:39 pm
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Joined: 25 Mar 2013
Posts: 36
Location: Southern Michigan
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I have found ched primers (cx2000) to be slightly larger. Sometimes a win 209 will fit just right in a ched hull, other times I can pry them out with a fingernail. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 16, 2014 1:55 am
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 1545
Location: Michigan
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Jim Atlas wrote: |
I have found ched primers (cx2000) to be slightly larger. Sometimes a win 209 will fit just right in a ched hull, other times I can pry them out with a fingernail.
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Maybe you got a batch of undersized Winchester primers? |
_________________ What one person receives without working for, another person must work for without receiving. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 16, 2014 3:19 am
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Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2165
Location: Florida
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JIM ATLAS
I have had the same problem , even noticing that they have backed out a little after final crimping. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 16, 2014 5:48 am
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Member
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 113
Location: Arizona
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I'm having a problem with the Cheddite hull and Winchester 209. Have been reloading with the same recipe for two or three years, with no problem. Just now, the Win 209 are dropping out of the reloaded shell. Don't know if it has to do with this being a new batch of Cheddite hulls, originally came with Cheddite 209 primers, that are red (the hulls) instead of the green hulls I had been using? Used the handy tool to resize the pocket, and no problem, just an extra step. |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:01 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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It isn't the Winchester primers, Cheddites are about .001" larger than theWinchester primers. It is the basewad that holds in the primer on some hulls not the metal, once the metal is expanded.
The thing I don't like about Cheddites is they pierce in every shotgun I own, that I have used them in. Not every primer but 10 out of 100 or so. It is too bad, out of all the Euro primers they seem to be the best.
It's OK though I would rather spend my dollar with Winchester and Federal. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Wed Apr 16, 2014 11:07 am
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Member
Joined: 01 Jul 2013
Posts: 324
Location: Brookville , Pa
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I use the pre-primed cheddite hulls from BPI for my 16ga target/dove loads , and when I reload them I just give them a whack with the primer pocket conditioning tool , never had a CCI or Federal primer fit loose in the pocket after that |
_________________ There's magic in a good , old honest shotgun . Give me a gun with a little character , and I'll try to honor it's history . |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 18, 2014 4:22 pm
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Member
Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida
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16gaugeguy says "My very best advice is to carefully mike your spent primers and log the diameters." Seriously now, do you actually do what you recommend? What do you find?
Doghchaser37's experience with piercing Cheddites is exactly the same as my own. I worry about frying my firing pins. If you want a cheap 209, use the NobelSport 686/209 or the Fiocchi 616. Yes, they are a bit bigger. Frankly, with US sized primer pockets, the best thing in target loads is Win 209's. They are pretty cheap. The CCI209 can be pretty cheap too, and I think they are a lot like the old discontinued Fed 209 -- not 209A. CCI 209M is like Fed 209A -- they're magnum primers. CCI's are made in the same factory as Fed's, I'm told, and you can see the packaging is the same. Rem 209 Premier STS's are costly, and their performance, judging by looking at a wide variety of loads, confuses me. Generally they produce loads with low pressure for a given velocity, but not always lower pressures than Win209 or CCI209. No reliable pattern of pressure characteristics seems to exist with them when looking at loads that use various primers for the same exterior ballistic performance. |
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Posted:
Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:49 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2343
Location: West MI
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For what its worth, i use w209's for the first couple/few reloads untill they get loose then squish noble's in there for the next few reloads and usually by the time the nobles get loose the hull is ready for the recycle pile. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:22 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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[quote="shootingsioux"]16gaugeguy says "My very best advice is to carefully mike your spent primers and log the diameters." Seriously now, do you actually do what you recommend? What do you find?
I've found folks who ask others to do their homework for them end up at the back of the class. I suggest you get a micrometer and find out for yourself. Then you'll know what I've found out. Good luck.
PS, Your hunch about Remington 209P/STS primers is correct. They are among the coolest primers on the market and are very similar in size, shape, and performance to the long discontinued Federal 209 primers.
The 209P/STS primers were originally designed for use in Remington's Premier and STS target loads. They are still being used for that purpose today. I've used them exclusively when reloading my serious target ammo meant for registered and league trap shooting. They are a perfect fit in the STS hulls and have performed extremely well for me over many years now. They also work fine in my light duty 12 ga hunting loads (which are basically the same loads I use for target work.) Why fix what ain't broke.
Be advised. The 209 primers used in Remington promo hunting loads like the 16 ga RGL ammo are nothing like the Remington 209P/STS primers. These promo primers are industrial grade and not generally available to the public.
The ones recently used in the 16 ga. RGL loads over the last decade are junk in my experience. They are obviously contracted out to the lowest bidder and can vary considerably from lot to lot in cup hardness and a bit in diameter as well. Misfires can be common when used in some guns with lighter hitting strikers. Quality and consistency are obviously iffy.
These industrial grade 209 primers are also bigger in diameter than the 209P/STS primers and, as stated, vary in size and quality from lot to lot. So the 209P/STS primers tend to be a slightly loose to loose fit in 16 ga. RGL hulls. I don't use them for that purpose. I've found the Nobel Sport 209 primers are a perfect fit in RGL hulls and reliably fire in any gun I've ever used them in.
Best understand that RGL loads are designed to be used once and the empty hulls disposed of. Reloadability is not high on the corporate punch list. Just how it is.
These inconsistencies we 16 ga. reloaders often have to deal with are the main reasons why a smart reloader owns a good micrometer and frequently uses it. So yes, I practice what I preach in this case. Momma raised no fools. |
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Posted:
Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:41 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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All kinds of great info.
Something must be wrong with the Remington 16 gauge hulls I have. Winchester 209 and Federal 209A primers are tight in mine. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:05 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
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Nothing's wrong DC. The lot your hulls came from were probably primed with smaller than average primers. It's another of those inconsistencies we deal with.
I have a large supply of very much older black RGL hulls which I purchased from a supplier about 10 years ago. He got them out of Remington's junk pile in up state NY well before that time. These older hulls also have tighter primer pockets.
These hulls come from the mid-1980s. They are much tougher than the newer RGL hulls. They were obviously manufactured out of heavier grade plastic tubing and have slightly smaller interior volumes. The spent primers I punched out of these older hulls look a lot like the old Federal 209 and original Remington 209P primers. So obviously, Remington used to use their own primers in their promo loads nearly 30 years ago now. Times have changed and so have corporate attitudes regarding quality vs profits. They obviously hire it all done now and don't care much about anything but the bottom line in the short run. Just how it is. |
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