Author |
Message |
< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Question On Heavy Hunting Load |
|
Posted:
Sat Jun 28, 2014 8:49 am
|
|
|
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 863
Location: NoDak
|
|
Hi all, me again!! Okay so I've been looking for a low pressure heavy hunting load (for late season roosters) and looking thru spr310's spreadsheets I found one, here's the published load:
Win CF Hull
1 1/8oz payload
24 grns of 800X
Rem 209P primer
SP-16 wad
1290 fps @ 8500psi
Here's my questions
1) According to the spreadsheet you can use a Cheddite hull instead of the Win. It also says that the SP-16 wad is not a good choice. My question is why?
2) I can't find any Rem 209P primers, all I have are Fed 209A, Win 209 and Cheddite 209. Which one could you sub for the Rem Primer?
Your thoughts please.
Thanks so much as always!
Greg |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Jun 28, 2014 10:46 am
|
|
|
Joined: 07 Apr 2007
Posts: 1624
Location: northwewst Wyoming
|
|
I'm not going to be much help, but two powders come to mind that provide low pressure. I shoot the following loads exclusively for pheasant:
Shot wt. Vel. Powder Gr. Wads PSI
1 1178 SR4756 28 card & fiber 5780
1 1238 SR4756 30 “ 6440
1 1328 SR4756 32 “ 7440
1 1/8 1325 SR4756 32 “ 9620
I'm a RMC hull guy, but the above using Winchester 209 primers will work in Federal hulls and if Cheddite hulls have straight walls it should work there too. Another powder that has low pressure and allows for 1 1/8 oz. payloads is Trail Boss and the only source of loads that I have found are from Tom Armbrust. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Jun 28, 2014 11:42 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
|
|
Look at Hodgdon;s data for 16ga there are Longshot loads that have the punch you need at the pressure you like |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sat Jun 28, 2014 12:59 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 09 Aug 2004
Posts: 401
Location: Tennessee
|
|
The Cheddite hull can be subbed for the new Winchester - which is in fact a Cheddite itself - but it is likely not an acceptable sub for the CF (compression-formed) hull. The CF is a tapered hull, the Cheddite is a straight-walled hull. Different pressure figures. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jun 29, 2014 6:55 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
|
|
Unless you happen to have some on hand, finding once fired WW 16 ga compression formed hulls is going to be nearly impossible now. The hulls were discontinued by the early 1990's. Most folks who still have some won't part w/ them. I'd forget about this recipe and look for one with far more easily obtained componants if I were you. Good luck. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:14 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 06 Apr 2007
Posts: 3373
Location: The Great Northwet
|
|
byrdog wrote: |
Look at Hodgdon;s data for 16ga there are Longshot loads that have the punch you need at the pressure you like
|
+1 |
_________________ Gun art: www.marklarsongunart.com
Gallery art: www.marklarsonart.com
The man's prayer from the Red Green Show: "I'm a man, but I can change, if I have to. I guess." |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Sun Jun 29, 2014 7:19 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
|
|
Not with a Winchester CF hull. To the best of my knowledge, Hodgdon never produced data for Longshot in a 16 Gauge Winchester compression formed hull.
gjw,
The new Winchester ammo made in Australia uses Cheddite 16 Gauge hulls. However with the amount of outsourcing going on, you need to be absolutely sure and check. No ones can be absolutely positive what the ammo factories will use from one year to the next.
Winchester hasn't made compression formed (cf) hulls since about 1998 or so. Like GG said, they are very hard to come by. |
_________________ Mark |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 3:13 am
|
|
|
Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 863
Location: NoDak
|
|
Thanks all! Sure appreciate ll the comments and well given advise. I did make a MAJOR mistake, the hulls are not the Win CF, but Win Poly Formed.
Sorry about that!
I would like to use Longshot, so, I'll just wait and see what maypop up. Powder here is almost impossible to find!
Thanks again!
Greg |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:01 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
|
|
gjw,
Your idea to use 800X is a good one. Longshot is OK, but it is better in a 1 1/4 oz load.
Just remember. Pressure is your friend. Pressures above 9000 PSI to 11,500 PSI in a 16 Gauge is where you want to be. Complete combustion, uniform ballistics and good cold weather performance are the rewards for pressures in that range.
DO NOT believe there is anything better about pressures below that point. While there are some good loads, you will also see many questions about unburned powder and poor cold weather performance. There is some other nonsense about older firearms not being able to withstand modern load pressures, that is pure bullsh**. The issue with older firearms is recoil, not pressure. So if you are trying to protect an older shotgun, drop the velocity and the payload a bit, that will protect the old wood. The pressures of yesteryear are still the pressures of today and they quite likely were higher than they are now in some cases. |
_________________ Mark |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:02 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
|
|
I like long shot in a 1oz load. I have the Hodgdon manual with the shooter targeting a flying saucer . In it are some recipes that make the 16ga perform like a 12ga as far as payload weight and velocity are concerned. I will put some of the loads up in another post. |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 9:32 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
|
|
2001 Hodgdon manual
16ga samples WWpolyhull
10z lead shot-ww209-waa16 or clone-27grs Longshot= 1400fps @ 8000psi
29grs Longshot=14500fps@10300psi
1 1/8oz lead shot-Fed209-G16- 25grs Longshot= 1295fps@9000psi
There are a few from the book. There are 10 loads for 16ga WW Compression formed hulls as well. So know that 15Guageguy makes rash statements more as a rule than an exception. |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 4:23 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
|
|
byrdog,
There is no reason to take the velocity to that level to make the 16 Gauge perform as well as a 12 ga.
A 16 can hold it's own with a 12 from 3/4 oz. to 1 1/8 oz., without increasing velocity.
If you like that velocity level, go for it, but 1400 FPS isn't necessary for 16 Gauge 1 oz. load to go toe to toe with a 12 ga 1 oz load. |
_________________ Mark |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 6:31 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
|
|
|
Last edited by mike campbell on Sun Aug 11, 2019 12:38 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Jun 30, 2014 7:45 pm
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 12 Mar 2005
Posts: 6535
Location: massachusetts
|
|
byrdog wrote: |
2001 Hodgdon manual
There are a few from the book. There are 10 loads for 16ga WW Compression formed hulls as well. So know that 15Guageguy makes rash statements more as a rule than an exception.
|
2001? don'tcha think maybe a lot has changed since 1995 to 2001. Doubt this? Then go ahead and try to find a decently sized, not to mention affordable, supply of once fired 16 gauge WW compression formed hulls today. Might take you a while. Probably wiser to just go w/ loads which call for more easily obtained componants (which is what I posted.) I dunno, but that doesn't sound all that rash to me.
But I'm no expert on rashes. Never been prone to getting them. I can recognize a dumb ass pain in the butt right off though. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Jul 01, 2014 7:45 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
|
|
Go away |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
|
|
|
|
|
|