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I generally shoot a few birds with 12 ga. black powder cartridge loads each season, but I had never chronographed my loads. I decided to run a BP/BP substitute chrono session for the 16 cartridge. I set the measure on 72 grs. (2 1/2 dr.) and loaded charges by volume. Loads were assembled in Ballistic Products new primed Multi-metal hulls and consisted of a 0.125" OP + 3/8" fiber + 1 oz. #6 + 0.010" OS. I used 20 lbs. compression on the BP, but virtually no comp. on the BP subs. All the loads were fired in the 26" left barrel of a CZ Bob White and are the average of 3 rds. (Not particularly statistically valid, I know, but this is just a sampling.) ES= Extreme Spread and AD= Average Deviation
I have included the ave. weight of each powder.

GoEx 2Fg (68 grs.) Vel=1035 fps ES=81 fps AD=31 fps
GoEx 3Fg (67 grs.) Vel=1076 fps ES=45.6 fps AD=6.1 fps
GoEx CART (70 grs.) Vel=825 fps ES=261 fps AD=107 fps
Swiss 2Fg (73.6 grs.) Vel=1130 fps ES=23 fps AD=11.5 fps
Pyrodex P (47 grs.) Vel=757 fps ES=43 fps AD=16 fps
Pyrodex 777 (50 grs.) Vel=1057 fps ES=30 fps AD=9 fps
Pyrodex RS (46 grs.) Vel=935 fps ES=25.6 fps AD=7.2
Pyrodex CTG (43 grs.) Vel=880 fps ES=75 fps AD=28.1 fps
GoEx Pinnacle (55 grs.) Vel=749 fps ES=52.8 fps AD=20.5 fps

For comparison: 19.0 grs PB + 0.135" + 1/2 + 5/16" + 0.050"OS Vel= 1132 fps ES=85 fps AD=42.5 fps

I wanted 1100+ fps if possible. Only one load made that, the Swiss powder. I would possibly also use anything over 1050 fps, as that is a velocity advertised for some "low recoil" factory loads. I will probably boost the Swiss load a few grains and use it for quail.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Thanks for that , nice to know . I have been using 62 ( 2 1/4 dram ) weighed grains of 3f Goex under 7/8 oz lead , nice light load and shoots pretty good .

jag - there's usually some loads in the Hodgdons data books . Usually 1oz or 11/8oz

I consulted Hodgdon manuals, some going back to the early days of Pyrodex, plus one of the Gun Digest Black Powder Annuals. Getting 1 1/8 oz. to fit is possible, but space is limited with these charges.

I have thought about decreasing the shot load to 7/8 oz. for a little more velocity. I can crowd a little more powder in, but not much and still use a minimum 3/8" filler. Somewhere I read to use about 20 lbs of wad pressure on black and none on black subs. I question that somewhat, as I put proportionately more pressure or compression on my .45 2 1/2" loads. Compression in rifle cartridges almost always boost the efficiency of the load.

I guess my little experiment surprised me in the amount of disparity between the black subs and honest to goodness black powder. I was expecting them to be much more similar. I won't be rewriting any loading manuals, but all in all, it was nice watching the smoke clouds drift away as I was shooting. Smile

Member Joined: 15 Mar 2007 Posts: 601 Location: Virginia

Yep, blackpowder is kind of weak on velocity when using the old "equal volumes of shot and powder" rule. Upping the weight of powder will help some, but not more than 10%. It's also a good reason to go with larger shot when shooting black. The extra weight helps with penetration. I used to hunt waterfowl with black, but that was before nontoxic rules.

Dan

Thanks for the advice, Dan. These loads were no. 6 shot. I might go down to no. 7. Sevens are my most common shot for quail. I probably will pattern a few loads before fall to see how they look on paper.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

What are you using for you filler wads , are they lubed ?

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

Ya my main concern was to help keep the barrels clean for high volume shooting such as clays , dove , snipe or preserve quail .

I heard it both ways about loading cartridges with lubed cushion wads affecting the BP . Haven't had any problems yet , but I only load them a couple days in advance of shooting them .

Have any experience loading BP cartridges with lubed wads and storing them for an extended period of time ??

fn:

I spent a year working up .45-70 loads for a Uberti '74 Sharps "Business Model". I used 0.030" and 0.060" fiber wads, but did not get around to lubed wads. I wanted to try lube disks between the bullet base and the over powder wads. However, I got off on a tangent when I had a 7X57 built and spent a year working up loads for it. Now that I've taken a couple of deer with the 7mm, I think I'll go back to the .45-70. My goal was sub 2-MOA groups for the Uberti. I am close, but haven't found a load that would do it consistently. By the way, that Uberti has had 7 smokeless rounds thru it as compared to something like 300 black powder loads. Shooting BP in the Sharps almost ruined me as far as ever loading smokeless powder again. Smile

If I were going to load lubed wads in a 16, I would probably try a grease disc between the OP and filler wads. Something with a lot of body like, SPG. I'd also try oiling the edges of fiber wads. I would store the rounds in a plastic box with the heads up, just in case the lube would run. Around here during hunting season, lube melting into the powder would probably be moot unless you left them under the truck heater. Clay shooting in the summer would be a different matter.

If you try lubed wads in the 16, let me know how it works.

Member Joined: 09 Jan 2013 Posts: 2168 Location: Florida

I plan ordering some lubed ox yoke and doing some test, when I get some time , I will let you know how it goes.

The last ones I loaded , where lubed with Criskco , but I shot them two days later , seemed to help keep the barrel cleaner .

Thanks FN, I'd like to know how it works. I wonder if lubed wads will have an effect on velocity. I noticed that often the velocity decreased from first shot to last. I would think the increased resistance of the fouling would have resulted in increased velocity due to pressure rising with the resistance. Perhaps fiber and paper OP wads don't seal as well with heavy fouling.

So many things to test, so little time.....

Joined: 09 Jul 2014 Posts: 2

BPI lists several loads over 1100 fps using Hodgdon Triple Seven. How about 65 gr of Seven under an 1 1/4 oz at 1192 fps. That sho0uld jar your Mother's preserves!!

Joined: 11 May 2012 Posts: 20

I have loaded & shot BP sub loads for almost all of my guns, center-fire rifles & shotguns... don't think that I have tried it with 16ga yet. I like 777, but since on the bottle it says ' Not for use in cartridges ', I use it sparingly in my center-file guns, over the primer, to get the Pyrodex to ignite reliably. Where I live, it is frequently 90%-100% humidity which plays havoc with BP ignition. I have taken to pouring a lb of black into a pan, and drying with an incandescent bulb overnight, which helps....

Most recently, I did some 12ga BP loads, with 10 pennies ( 1 oz ) as the shot load, over ( very ) compressed BP... cylinder bore... worked great...