16ga.com ~ View topic - Recommendations for loading 1-1/4 ounce 16 GA loads

chedite

[quote="Doggai"]As to the comments regarding recoil.

"...Here's another thought. If you can't hit 'em with a 1 1/8 ounce load, its pretty sure you ain't gonna hit 'em with 1 1/4 ounce charges, either. And who needs that level of punishment when one should be enjoying himself with his dog..."

No doubt extra heavy loads punch hard in both directions out of lighter weight shotguns. However, felt recoil is a relative thing. What might be uncomfortable to shoot on a target range or on a game field where shots are frequent might be barely noticeable during the excitement of the hunt when shots are few, ranges are long, and conditions are already a bit uncomfortable. At least, that has been my experience. The question here should be how often do we need such heavy 16 gauge loads and under what conditions.

A fast one ounce load of #6 shot will have enough pattern density and punch to cleanly kill most pheasant sized birds out to 30 yards under most conditions. A relatively fast one and one eighth ounce load of #5 shot will have the needed pattern density and punch to extend the range out to 35 yards and maybe a bit more--say forty yards max. However, only a relatively fast one and one quarter ounce load of #4 shot has the pattern density and punch to reliably kill at 40 yards and beyond when the wind is cold and blustery. In my experience, these extra heavy loads of #4 shot are lethal out past 50 yards under the toughest conditions I've hunted in.

And yes, I agree. Being able to accurately place the pattern on the bird is important regardless of range. I'm not about to claim I can always put the pattern on the bird out at 40 yards and beyond, but I've hit enough pheasant out that far to know these extra heavy loads of #4 shot definitely kill will more authority than any lesser load i've used under similar conditions. That is why I carry a few when I know conditions might very well be tough and the ranges long.

The 1-1/4 ounce 16 gauge load of #4 shot is a good option to have on hand if your gun will pattern it well, and you can effectively use it at extended ranges. I leave it up to any of you to decide what will work for you and what it takes for any of you to enjoy yourselves.

Member Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 1863 Location: Wisconsin

If you are shooting an eight pound gun, go for it. For me the sixteen on a twenty gauge frame is wonderful. An ounce and a quarter in those circumstances can be painful and/or crack a stock. I love 1.25 oz., in 12 gauge behind 3.75 drams of powder. Reno

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

16gaugeguy, I'll agree with everything you say and add one thing.

When it comes to estimating the distance to a flying or flushing bird, most people (myself included) have a darn hard time telling what's 20 yards and what's 40. A pheasant at 40 yards looks really, really small - I suppose we should all take one and measure off 40 yards to see just what it looks like.

I'm willing to bet most hunters might put that bird in the "too far" category and not even shoot.

And the excitement of a flushing pheasant, with all the sound and fury and feathers wiggling and all just makes deciding "too far or not" all the harder.

So, I suppose, the thing to conclude is that until one feels himself comfortable knowing just how far he can reach with his shotgun, passing on the really long shots is probably the way to go. And until one is sure the long shots can be made, laying off the roman candles pushing 1 1/4 oz of #4 may be a good idea.

But I will still load an ounce of #4 in 16s' my left barrel or 1 1/8 of #4 in my 12's.

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

With #4 lead shot the difference between 1 1/8 and 1 1/4 oz loads is about 15 pellets. If the birds required a #4 shot to get sufficient retained velocity and penetration, having those additional 15 pellets would certainly be welcome. I suspect while such situations are common in hunting, I doubt that they would present themselves enough to result in a injury to the shooter or the gun.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

"Recommendations for"....Advil... Shocked

Regarding judging range, I was taught to use what you have; the muzzle of the gun or the width of the rib or bead at the muzzle. Take something approximating the size of the game, for birds usually a decoy or 5gal bucket or whatever works, step off 20, 25, 30 whatever you shoot your game at and see what the thing looks like referencing the muzzle or rib against the bucket, works as a simple range finder.

Good luck...

Member Joined: 25 Jun 2008 Posts: 1863 Location: Wisconsin

Shooting practice and hunting experience are far more important than practicing range estimation in my experience. Hunting experience (our own or those of our guides and/or mentors teaches us what to expect from the birds we hunt and what loads and chokes work best at various ranges. Polished wing shooting resulting from diligent shooting practice at various ranges teaches us to hit those birds in close and out yonder.

There is not much thinking to it either. Wing shooting is best done without conscious thought. Wing shooting is simply a subconscious, seemingly automatic reaction to our perceptions of target speeds and angles. Range estimation has very little to do with it. So don't think about shooting or estimating ranges. Wing shoot a lot at various ranges, and you will learn to hit them in close and out far. In short, nothing replaces shooting practice or hunting experience.

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

The number of bird hunters, even very serious ones, who can RELIABLY center a pattern on a bird past 35 yards is only slightly larger than the number of honest, hardworking politicians and lobbyists in Washington DC. Shooting ability far outweighs ammunition and shotgugun selection and no matter how hard we try one simply can not "buy" birds with equipment. This is why study after study shows the vast majority of birds are killed at 20 yards and under where virtually no lead is required. If you can shoot well, really well, at greater than 35 yards then you can certainly justify 1 1/4 oz loads. Otherwise they are overkill. Shoot whatever gives you confidence and makes you happy.
Regards,
Jeff

I have to agree with most of what you posted here. Most bird hunters I know might shoot one round of skeet or trap or a few practice shots at clays thrown from a Trius Trap or a hand held launcher out in the back 40 the weekend before opening day. Most shoot none at all. I've seen the results out in the game fields time and again-- a lot of shooting and trash talking but not much hitting, even well inside 25 yards. Time and again, I've seen recently stocked, pen raised pheasant fly away without a scratch from under the very feet of groups of four to eight shooters--all of them blazing away with their heavy 12 gauge field loads for all they're worth (which ain't much).

On the other hand, I've watched experienced skeet shooters dump the same birds with their 28's without missing a shot. I've seen what any number of experienced trap shooters can regularly do to pheasant at ranges longer then 35 yards. The key word here is experienced. Pheasant don't stand a chance unless they run rather than fly away from these guys.

The only difference between the two groups is the amount of targets they shoot per year, and that makes all the difference. Just how it is.

The only thing I disagree with is the concept of lead or in this case, no lead. To me, lead is a four letter word. The swing is the thing that dumps the bird. No swing, no bird--regardless of range. But that is the central problem.

Experienced shooters focus on the bird and let their swing do the work of getting the pattern on target. They do not look for the lead or gap between the bird and the muzzle or bead. Most good wing shots couldn't tell you how far ahead the bead or muzzle was when they pulled the trigger, because their eyes were locked on the mark when they pulled the trigger and nowhere else.

Inexperienced shooters follow the bird with the barrel while trying to determine how far ahead of the target the muzzle or bead has to be for the lead or gap to be right. The inexperienced shooter then focuses on the bead, stops the gun, and pulls the trigger after the gap looks (actually looked) just right. No swing, no lead, no bird. Simple. Range doesn't matter.

Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3177 Location: NCWa

As far as proper lead goes; the two best shotgun shooters that I have known both said basically the same thing. The clay shooter said to focus on the leading edge of the clay and when the muzzle blotted it from view: fire; the other shooter was a hunter and had the same theory with the leading edge of the clay replaced by the beak of the bird.

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

The concept of lead is an entirely different topic. It will depend on which technique you use and when you can apply it. The vast majority of shots at flushing birds will be relatively shallow angles going away and a subtle swing through will get the bird with very little to no perceived lead. A rooster flying down the line perpendicular to a group of hunters with a prairie tailwind behind him will require perceived lead by many, especially if shooting maintained lead or pull away. I shoot all methods and I certainly see lead on shots in the field. I even hit some of them. I also shoot about 8-10K targets a year, many of them with game guns. I shot more when I used to compete. It's difficult to say what others see, or more correctly perceive, when they are shooting. I've given enough lessons to know we all interpret visual information differently.
Regards,
Jeff

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

Thought I remember a thread about someone looking for things that can cause detached retinas Very Happy

just joking, found these over at Midway, you could cut to the chase and try these;

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/560396/federal-premium-wing-shok-ammunition-16-gauge-2-3-4-1-1-4-oz-buffered-6-copper-plated-shot-box-of-25?cm_vc=ProductFinding

When referencing the #5.75-7 16ga guns I own, I'll up my original response...more Advil...