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Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

I was just wondering people's opinion on a safe psi level for older guns.

As you can see below I have 2 older 16ga guns and have kind of limited the m12 and 311a to 9600 psi (no current stock issues).

*Last edited by skeettx on Wed Nov 12, 2014 1:40 pm; edited 2 times in total*

My opinion to the question
I was just wondering people's opinion on a safe psi level for older guns

My opinion, the lower the better Very Happy

Mike

p.s. I like to stay around 6,000 psi for damascus guns.

also psi and recoil have little to do with each other

p.s.s. I consider your guns as modern guns

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

If you are worried about the wood stay around 1200 fps Pressure has nothing to do with recoil . If you are worried about the barrel take it to a good gunsmith and have him asses that for you.

+ 1 for what Skeettx said, I would shoot about anything I wanted in those two.

Dale

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Thank you for your responses. I had somehow picked up the idea that there was some correlation between psi and recoil.

PSI = stress on barrel, but not necessarily low recoil.

FWIW, both those shotguns were proofed at the approximate same levels that are used today.

I guess I look at pressure a little different than most. I know what Dog sez about guns not showing pressure reactions .... HOWEVER ... with the main shells being chedds , old guns DO show pressure signs - not necessarily because of excess . These shells stretch , fireform etc , The Davis shows it around the ejector/extractors . The old 2 shot will blow form the rim . My factory bizz shells will extract hard in anything ! Even the Ruger will stick around the extractors with a decently high load .... sooo ... I use RGLS in the 2shot with fairly light loads - the rgls have a little more cushion that works well . I shoot 7/8 in the Davis and try to keep around 9K - likes them ! The 48's , in order to get more than 1 load , get RGLS at 23 gram loads with 13.5 Red Dot - likes them and doesn't stretch out the rims . With the chedds , I really appreciate the posting guys have done here -20/28- anything from 17 grns to 27 grns is in a working range . For a particular gun , start low and go up till the cases say stop and back off a little . If I get a load I like and it generically works in most guns , that's what I go with .

If you are having all those problems there is something else wrong. While shooting lower pressure levels may help, pressure levels aren't the reason for the issues.

Whether the guns are worn, tampered with, etc., it is tough to tell, but something is wrong for sure.

The Ruger definitely should not be pressure sensitive.

I have shotguns made from 1916 on up and I have never had to concern myself with keeping pressures at a lower level for any type of extraction or feeding problems. Most of my shotguns are autos or pumps, so if there is a problem it would certainly show up with these types of actions.

Barrel steels flex when the shotgun is fired but the amount is certainly not enough for you to see or measure at least by examining the fired hull. Strain gauges are used to measure the amount of stretch, typically a barrel will expand a strain gage about .0003 to .0005 of an inch upon firing.

Mark , come on Bud . I'm sure you've read the threads about dished 48 cases and stuck / slipped extractors etc . These are old gun problems that are occuring because of the chedd case deluge . WE are the only ones really haveing to deal with this except maybe Putzie and his 10's . Every other ga still has one piece cases and can ignore these things . I still have guys giving me old AA's for my 28's . I use them 1st shot in my skeet guns because they won't expand and come clean . Feds are the next best and now that Estates are going back to chedd , guess what . No worries with the AA's being avail . What I'm saying is that the problems can be minimized with some targeted reloading . This era of the steel cases sucks in my op . Can't make it go away , but I can improve on things .

I've shot factory loaded Fiocchis, Australian manufactured Winchesters, and a few other brands in every 16 ga gun I own w/o any signs of hull or head stretching (over expansion). All of these factory loads have Cheddite type hulls with steel bases. Remington RGLs and Express loads also have steel bases.

Once fired, stretched factory hulls fired in older, much used shotguns could very well be a strong indication of excessive headspace. Older doubles with off face barrels and repeaters with worn bolt lugs, worn receivers, and/or with improperly fitted barrels will cause hull stretching even with some low pressure loads. I'd look to the guns for the cause in this case.

GG -you've got it -OLD GUNS ! Do you think they'll all get expensive work to fix a shell quirk , or tweek your ammo !? READ the threads on 48 case stretching , it's a design thing . You CAN fix it !

Sorry not buying any of it. Cheddite cases function just fine in all my shotguns. The rest of the world doesn't know what a one piece hull is. I haven't had a real inventory of AA 16's in 10 years. It ain't the hulls causing the problems.......it isn't the pressure either.

Exactomundo DC. I completely agree. Shell stretching is almost always a gun problem-not an ammo problem. Both polyformed and compression formed (one piece) plastic hulls will stretch if given the room even when in reasonably low pressure loads are used. Brass hulls will stretch some if given the room to do so. I've seen modern solid head Colt .45 brass cases used for loading very light, low velocity, low pressure target ammo stretch in a revolver with too much headspace. The loads were probably under 8K PSI.

Extra low pressure loads might limit but won't eliminate hull stretching. They will cause other problems. Poor cold weather performance, incomplete powder burning, punk loads, misfires, erratic or poor ballistics, etc, can and will take place when average load pressures drop below acceptable levels for smokeless powder loads.

Also, excessive head space always leads to more. Given the room to move, hull bases will act as inertia hammers. Locking lugs will continue to get beaten until barrel shake is just plain unacceptable. Why go there. Better to fix the gun or use it as a wall hanger if it is no longer worth fixing.

Old guns, old dogs, and old hunters all eventually end up near a fire place. Just how it is.