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Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 171 Location: western PA

all the loads are made for the first part ot the season. i am now starting on loads for the cold weather. i will be hunting grouse in the late season temps may be in the 20 degree to the single digits. my early season loads are fiocchi hulls 16 gauge, 1 1/8 oz, 7 1/2 copper platted shot, f616 primer, 2 ob16 gas seals and a fiber wad. my early powder is blue dot at 24 grains. i know that blue dot is not a good cold weather powder.
what would be a better powder, for cold weather? hs-7, or sr4756. i also have herco but do not have any formulas for the 1 1/8 oz of shot. i dohave formulas for the other 2 powders.

i can change primers if nessicarry. i have win 209, and cci209, cci209m, federal 209a, and remington 209psts. I am tying not to get too high in the pressure range, because i will be using a 1912 parker vh 16 gauge.

also another question does useing a roll crimp instead of the fold crimp raise the chamber pressure? if so does any one have any idea how much?

Ben Yarian

Ben, is there any reason you can't go to a faster powder like Unique? A faster powder will give much better cold weather performance. You did not mention if your gun is modern or limited by age and make to low pressure loads. Plus, do you really need 1-1/8 ounce of shot. Grouse don't take a lot of killing. 3/4 ounce 28 ga loads of 7-1/2 or 7/8 ounce of #7 will dump any Pat fairly hit. Dusted or fringed birds are still dusted even with 2 ounces of shot.

I use a 7/8 ounce Green dot based load in my 16 for all but the toughest days of grouse hunting. Normally, a 3/4 ounce load of 7-1/2 at 1200 FPS plain smacks them dead in the air. The most I'll use is 1 ounce of #6 over Unique. Either the 1 ounce or 7/8 ounce load will work with Unique in most modern 16 ga. guns. The 7/8 ounce load over the right amount of Unique is a mild but effective load, pressurewise. I use Green Dot for 3/4 ounce loads, because pressures will be under 9K if you use no more than 16 grains.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

Switching to the Federal 209A will help

Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 171 Location: western PA

16gg. my guns are older. 1915 lc smith and 1912 parker . I do try to keep the pressure down because of this. also because of the extra choke in the older guns i have been loading with fiber wads, and no shot cups and with bp's extreem spreader, to get wider patterns. this also means no give to the shot load and a little more recoil. thus the slower burning powder. i may have to change (for colder weather) to somthing like unique. maybe herco. i do have some formulas for herco 1 ounce loads.

i am not that good of a shot. and that is why i have traditionaly used more shot and spreaders.

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

16 GG is correct in stating faster burn rate powders will give you a bit better performance in colder weather. The problem with many powders in cold weather is not so much the burn rate but their chemical makeup, single base powders(Imr PB, 7625, 4756) traditionally do much better in colder weather than most double based powders. There is not definitive answer from most sources as to why, but I have read that it is due to the stabilization of the nitroglycerene content of double base powders as the temperature drops. This seems to be evident in even very fast burn rate powders such as Red Dot as performance in colder weather does drop from many fast burn rate double based target powders.
Some ball type powders are extremely bad in cold weather, HS -6 and HS-7 being two of them. I chronographed identical HS-7 loads in 75 degree weather then in 28 degree weather just to see the difference, velocity loss was in the 100 fps range in colder weather.
Traditional powders I would stick with would be either IMR 7625 or 4756 for cold weather shooting. IMR 7625 is a very good cold weather performer in the 16 ga, and I believe you will find plenty of loads low enough in pressure to suit your needs with it. Some of the newer High Energy powders are performing quite well in colder weather, Alliant STEEL and Hodgdon Longshot being two of them. I have shot both of these powders in sub zero conditions with very little effect on perfomance, being primarily a duck and goose hunter the colder it gets the more we like it so cold weather load performance is paramount in my handloads.

Good advice Waterfowler. I have not used IMR powders much. Plus, the older I get, the less I want to hunt when the temperature drops below 30. However, there are times when getting out is more important than a bit of discomfort (older bones ache more, but older wives can nag more too Rolling Eyes

).

I believe 800X and American Select are also single base powders. AS might be too fast for all but the 3/4 ounce loads. 800X is a very flexible powder that is fine for a 16 ga load. But it must be weighed. It does not meter well. However, I will certainly look at these two you posted more closely myself. Thanks.

Joined: 15 Dec 2005 Posts: 287 Location: missouri

Hodgdon Longshot is the newest powder that has my attention, I have on purpose used the low end of the loading charts for Longshot just to see the performance. Using the lower pressure lower velocity listed loadings at the trap range, I was really surprised how mild Longshot was to shoot. It really broke the targets well and my shotgun stayed relatively clean after 4 rounds. Who knows maybe it will be the one powder for all my 16 ga shooting..wouldn't that be a switch.... Smile

Member Joined: 27 Jun 2005 Posts: 1545 Location: Michigan

I use Longshot for my 28 and 20 gauge reloads. I haven't used it for 16 gauge yet. Most all of my 16 gauge loads are currently using SR-7625. And I use PB for my 12 gauge low pressure loads.

Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 171 Location: western PA

16gawf...thank you for the imfo on the single based and double based powders. i was aware that blue dot was double. but i did not know that the 2 imr powders that you mentioned are single based. i do have several loads for the imr powders, that fit with the guns i am shooting( I think in cold weather i will stick with the parker, since i does not have the narrow inleted stock that the l.c. smith's do) that being said the pressures of the imr powders are not that more than the blue dot, but a little more still the same. and i like the idea of their being more reliable in the cold.

thanks to all that gave advice. its amazing what a guy can learn when comparing notes with others.

16gg... i like the comment about the old bones and old wives. Laughing

Ben

I was informed Long shot is a ball powder originally developed by Olin with a different designation for steel loads, but never offered as a canister grade powder by them. I'm not at all certain this is so.

However, my experience with slower ball powders and cold weather has not been good. WW571 is fine powder for 7/8 ounce 28 ga express loads until the temperature dips below 35. Then poor ignition becomes commonplace, even with magnum primers. I go to my 2400 based 1 ounce magnum load then. It still shoots very well even in temperatures below 30 and makes a 28 very potent indeed.

Longshot is a course flake powder.

thanks PP. Now I know.