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Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

Not married to any particular component. I currently have DR16, SG16, SP16, Z16 &
CBO100-16 (WAA16). Just trying to find the right combination that crimps well
Powder has been a little of an issue since most of my metallic powder does not work with shotshell data. I have been able to locate some of the shotshell powders recently.
I would like to narrow all down to a handful of loads.
Here's another load I have tried with the same hull ;
1-oz lead / SR7625 22 gr. / SP16 / W209 / OSC = 1250/9900
I was planning to load this next
Ched 2 3/4 - 7/8 oz lead - 18 gr. Green Dot - W209 - DR16
List 1273 @ 10233

My favorite 1 oz load in the Win CF hull is 18-19 gr. Unique R16 or Win AA wad win 209 primer. Crimps perfect on my 9000G and runs smooth as butter. I use 7.5 shot for sporting clays and #7 pigeon shot for my grouse loads. I load 18 gr Green dot in the Herters Cheditte DR16 wad win 209 7/8oz #8 for skeet and mid range sporting clays targets. Substitute #7.5 shot for woodcock in the same load. These 2 loads are my bread and butter both run smooth on the 9000G but crimp and preform well. Red 1 oz purple 7/8 oz I also use the black Rem hull for 3/4 so when I pull one out the color tells me what it is immediately. I really was surprised how effective the 3/4 oz loads are seems all the shot gets to the target at once and just smokes clay targets. The Rem load is 16gr Greendot DR16 wad win 209 primer 3/4oz 8.5 shot. This load is a little more fickle on the 9000G more fooling around with the case mouth and wad.

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:35 am; edited 1 time in total*

I once successfully loaded my 7/8 ounce, RGL, 16 gr. GD load by substituting the DR16 wad w/o any filler wads for the R16 wad w/ one filler wad. I also employed very little to no wad seating pressure when inserting the wads in the hulls. I seated the wads just deep enough to kiss the top of powder charge and no more. Doing so allowed the underside of the crimp folds to meet with a sufficient enough resistance from the shot/wad column to fold down nice and flat. The shot/wad column was firmly seated on the powder charge and crimps were perfectly formed by the downward force of the correctly adjusted crimping die center post.

I also successfully loaded my 3/4 ounce loads w/ the same components and press settings, again w/o filler wads. However, there was a minimal amount of dishing in the crimp centers. I think one 28 ga. nitro card would have eliminated the dishing, but the small amount w/o filler wads caused no shot to leaks or any other problems from what my shooting trials revealed.

So please take note. Some time ago, I learned that correctly adjusting the crimp starting and crimp forming stations to incorporate a sufficient amount of the hull mouth folds in the process is vital to forming perfect crimps on 3/4 and 7/8 ounce loads. Most folks unfamiliar w/ progressive presses do not initially allow enough hull mouth folds to be incorporated at the crimp starting station. At the crimp forming station, the underside of the crimp folds do not meet with enough resistance from the shot/wad column to form up nice and flat.

I suggest you progressively try lowering your crimp starting and forming dies in small steps until your crimps perfectly form up. You might be surprised just how much hull mouth is initially needed to get nicely folded and formed crimps on extra light loads. I hope my suggestion helps out anyone who might be having the same issues.

Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

Thanks to all. Going to try the Win CF load tonight
The Ched. Load in a 7/8oz load with the DR 16 crimped
great w/o the use of filler or OSC

Keep in mind that the average 16 gauge one ounce shot column is just about one inch. Therefore, each 1/8th ounce of shot takes up approximately 1/8" of capacity inside the shot cup of most 16 ga. plastic wads.

This explains why I choose to use one or two .135" (1/8") tall 28 ga. filler wads for my pet 3/4 or 7/8 ounce loads when loading w/ an R16 one ounce wad, 16 gr. Green Dot and the RGL case. The filler wads allow me to use my MEC Grabber as it is presently set up w/o having to re-adjust anything. The filler wads greatly simplify things for me. However, I believe I could substitute the DR16 wad and get perfect flat crimps on either weight load without the use of filler wads. However, I would have to tweak the die setting to do so.

The DR16 wad's shot cup is just about .660" deep, so it's theoretical shot cup capacity is just about 11/16 of an ounce of shot. This does not mean it's actual working capacity is limited to 11/16 of an ounce of shot. It simply means that a portion of any heavier shot load will sit at some height above the wad cup when both shot and wad are placed in the hull. In comparison, the R16 wad's shot cup is just about .850" deep, so it's theoretical capacity is approximately 7/8 ounce. Again, a portion of a one ounce shot load will also sit above the shot cup inside any given hull.

However, the theoretical shot cup capacity of any plastic wad does not necessarily determine the practical working shot load capacity of any given load. What does determine the practical working capacity of any plastic wad is the height of a given powder charge in the hull plus the span between the bottom surface of the wad base and the bottom surface of the shot cup. This span represents the wad stack height or cushion section of any given wad. The amount of hull wall and mouth left above the top of the shot column plus the flexibility of a given wad's cushion section (how much it can be reasonably compressed when the crimp is formed) will determine the practical working crimp height of any given load.

The R16 and SP16 wads are about .635" in diameter from top to bottom w/o any taper or powder retaining ring on the base. Both wads were originally designed solely for use in the narrower discontinued and existing RGL Remington straight walled polyformed hulls. Both Remington wads have also been successfully seated and used for many years in the discontinued WW16AA one piece compression formed hulls which have tapered hull walls.

The DR16 wad design is closely similar to the original WW16AA and later Clay Buster clone wads. It's wad base is about .650" in diameter w/ a very slight taper toward the shot cup. The wad base also has a narrow molded in ring around it to help prevent powder migration in roomier polyformed 16 ga. hulls. The wad base is reasonably elastic and easily compressed. It can be easily seated in both the narrower straight walled Remington hulls and discontinued Winchester compression formed hulls w/o causing any seating and/or case bulging and splitting (which can be a problem when using most of the European Gualandi and and Cheddite type wads w/ larger diameters). It's larger base diameter w/ ring will also better seal most roomier 16 gauge polyformed Cheddite type and Federal straight walled hulls against powder migration.

In comparison, the cushion section of the DR16 wad is just about 1/4 inch taller than that of the R16 wad and it is also more flexible. This simply means that the ideal working shot load for the DR16 wad is just about 3/4 of an ounce if the powder charge column height is neither too short nor too tall and the internal hull capacity is also well matched to the load recipe. I think it is in your case.

What this tells me is that I should be able to load either 3/4 or 7/8 ounces of shot in a DR16 wad in my pet 16 grain Green Dot load in my RGL hulls. I should be able to get perfectly formed, flat crimps. All I need to do is tweak the adjustments of the crimp start and crimp form stations of my MEC Grabber for loading either shot load weight. The longer and more flexible cushion section of the DR16 wad should allow me to do so.

Since both the WW16AA compression formed hulls and the RGL hulls have almost identical internal capacities, then I don't see why you could not do the same with the DR16 wad and 16 grains of Green Dot in your load. It's a simple matter of working out the minor die adjustments for each load. So I doubt you are limited to the 7/8 ounce load when using your components and 16 grains of Green Dot.

My practical skeet and five stand clays shooting experience with both load weights has shown me that 7/8 ounces of #8 shot isn't needed to reliably break targets. My 3/4 ounce loads w/#8 or #9 shot break them just as well and are even more pleasant to shoot. The 1/8 ounce of shot saved with each load adds up considerably now that shot is so expensive (and sometimes hard to find too). You might try some of the 3/4 ounce loads with your same recipe using the DR16 wad. You might find they shoot at least as well or even better for you. It's worth a try in my opinion to find out. Good luck.

Sooo, I use a pretty easy method for finding shot height to 'good/ crimp. I pick the powder and wad with the shot load I want to use. I hand measure and put them in and measure from the hull lip ends down to the shot. if it is close to .4" I press one and see if it looks good. If it does not I adjust the shot and powder amount as long as I stay within specs until I get a good crimp.
If it is real bad I will go to other listed components I have until it works good then I write it down so I know what I had good luck with what I have on hand.

Joined: 28 Sep 2014 Posts: 241 Location: Kingsland, Texas

so you have loaded a win cf hull with 16 gr of Green Dot, DR 16 in a 3/4 oz , w209 primer?

PW loaders are so versatile I have one set up for 16ga 2.75 and another set up for 16ga 2.5 and 20ga 2.75. E-bay, Craigs list etc often has 375's for less than $200.00. Once I set them up to load a certain load I will leave it that way. then I have another 375 that I tinker with for loading hunting loads when I only want a dozen for a special purpose . Another note is that a 12ga 375 will load 16ga hulls if you change the Tapered crimp and the knock out to 16 ga parts they sell those parts and a Die as a kit.