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Joined: 09 Aug 2015 Posts: 30 Location: CT

I'll say up front that I'm sticking with 3/4oz only in this wad and hull combination.

I spent considerable time adjusting the crimp stations on my MEC 650 for the combination of Green Dot (my 28 bushing is dropping about 16.2), DR16 and 3/4 oz of hard 9's until I got everything just right. Very happy with the fit. Wad ram is adjusted to just set the wad without registering any pressure on the indicator. I've got the top of the shot column just a shade below the crimp fold, the crimp punch on the first crimp station up quite a bit higher than expected and had to lower the cam some to get things nice-nice. Very pleased with the looks of the finished shell, now to see how they shoot.

I had hoped to simply lower the wad ram and compress the legs deep enough to drop the 7/8 oz to the same level and keep the adjustments the same. No deal on that idea. I had the wad pressure up near 60 and the top of the column was still higher than I wanted. When run under the pre crimp, it pushed the shot out the top a bit and I never got the crimp to set acceptably. Gave up after 4 shells.

I bought a couple of bags of the CB 7/8 oz wads when I bought the DR's and once I get some Int' Clays (can't find any GD info with that wad) I'll see if I can't set the wad ram properly to use the same crimp settings. I don't mind documenting the height setting of the wad ram for the 2 loads I'd like to run and I'd plan on loading enough at one setting to where I won't be switching things that often anyway.

And a question while I'm at it; the spreadsheets at the Google link, are they different than those at the yahoo link? I'm not eager to sign up for a Google account but already had a Yahoo account. Might there be any loads there with the CB's and GD and the Win. CF?

7/8 oz and DR16 fits a lot better in the Cheditte and federal hulls. 3/4 is perfect in the Win CF and Rem hull.

I will mention something I worked up . The cost difference between the DR-16 and the less expensive CB-16 is MORE than the cost of an eighth of an ounce of lead shot. All the figures I used are price delivered.

Although at this time, you might not agree w/ what I'm about to post, I think you will later on if you don't quite yet. The time you spent learning how to adjust your MEC progressive press is well spent.

This is especially true for reloading 16 gauge ammo. Although we now have a much greater assortment of components to choose from than we did a few years ago, we will never have the same variety we have with 12 and 20 gauge components. We 16 gauge folks must still learn to make do with what we can get. Completely understanding how our presses work is manditory for us 16 gauge folks.

In time, you will come to understand the intricate relationship between all the stations on your press and how to adjust each one to get the best results with the reloading components you have access to. In time, you will learn all the techniques needed to make your components work for you to obtain the loads you want or need. My advise is to stick with it. Good luck.

Joined: 09 Aug 2015 Posts: 30 Location: CT

16GG, I agree, it was educational and not a waste of time by any means. I am not a novice reloader; been loading for 12,16,20 and 28 over the last 30 years or so. 95% target style loads and balance of heavier payload weight field loads when I hunted more. Usually the books were pretty good to matching proper wads for column height with powder charges and none of the adjustments seemed extreme.

But it doesn't seem right that it should require that extreme wad pressure to fit the extra 1/8 oz of lead in there. Rather than get crazy, I chose to set it aside for what should have been an easier solution, move to the CB 7/8 oz wad.

Been tinkering with that this afternoon; I'm coming up short on height and the crimps are dished down more than I think they should be. With that bulge in the bottom of the shot cup, I may be forced to try the meat tray foam spacer to take up some space. I have .125 cardboard wads but they will require shortening the drop tube to allow me to raise the wad ram high enough to seat the wad with no pressure; I already took about 5/16" off it. If I raise the wad ram higher to allow for a much thicker spacer on top of that bump, it lifts the drop tube and lifts the top assembly up.

Even comparing the WAA16 wad, looks like it would require 2 of the cardboard spacers to fill out and bring the 7/8 oz. to what I normally consider the proper distance down from the bottom of the crimp points.

I may also try backing off on the final crimp station to see if that might do the trick; I'll have to see if the shot is loose and rattling after the 2nd crimp or it its tight at that point.

I may try the Cheerio on top trick at the settings I"m at now. That will be a first for me!

Joined: 09 Aug 2015 Posts: 30 Location: CT

Had a chance to try both the 3/4 and the 7/8 oz loads today........NICE!!!!!

What a difference they make with my light weight Citori. While the 1oz was far from punishing no matter how you describe it, the 3/4 oz truly felt light and smashed the skeet clays. You can tell the difference between the 3/4 and 7/8 oz, too. Either one is terrific on the skeet field. I did back off to a 27 bushing on the 7/8 oz due to the different wad and wanted that bit of safety cushion until I can find some Int. Clays. The 27 bushing is dropping 15.8 gr. of Green Dot for me.

Those 3/4 oz. load, though, are the cats meow for skeet. I'll be loading up more of them ASAP.

I'm very pleased that you've found the 3/4 ounce Green Dot loads are a joy to shoot. Many of us have found the same thing. The load is perhaps the most balanced, practical load I've ever found for recreational 16 ga. shooting. I remain puzzled why the ammo industry at large hasn't figured this one out.

However, 7/8 ounces of #7.5 shot makes an excellent recreational trap singles load as well as a perfect ruffed grouse load after the first two weeks of the season. 7/8 ounces of #7 pigeon shot is also an excellent load for early season young wild pheasant, any pen raised birds before they fully plumage out after the beginning of winter, or for very late season grouse. So figuring out how to load them w/o problems is well worth the effort. They are one more useful arrow in our 16 gauge quivers.

Your thrown 15.8 grain Green Dot charge weights are exactly what mine weight out to using the same #27 MEC bushing. I post 16 grains to simplify things. The 0.2 grains of powder does not make any practical difference. Also, other's charge weights thrown from the #27 bushing vary slightly for a number of reasons. It doesn't matter. 15.8 to 16 grains of GD works to perfection. enjoy your 16 gauge shooting. It's an excellent gauge which far more useful than simply for hunting.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 822

As you may know by now I am mainly a trapshooter ( game shooter ) for recreation. Play a lot of the protection shoot. But reading about the 3/4 oz load I thought I would chime in. I mainly shoot 1oz for most of the game shooting.But when I'm the first shooter on protection shoots I shoot a 3/4 oz . On the 20 & 23 yard.In general it leaves bigger pieces for my partner to go after. Most of the time these shoots are draw partner. Everybody enjoys teaming up with me because of the better chance of connecting with a extra point. For along time the fellows were wondering how I could leave bigger pcs. They caught on after watching me pull loads from a different pocket of my vest. As for my 2nd shot behind my partner I use 1-1/16oz of 8-1/2's. 8-1/2's work fine back at the 23 yard. Beyond that is a little questionable so I don't push it.
I've had many shooters the last couple of years ask about the availability of components for the 16. Since they realized there components are not as scarce as thought many shooters have bought the
16 but don't have the confidence level built yet to shoot on trap. It's just a mind thing.one of the shooters said Saturday night to me that you can't stuff to much shot in the 16. He said he shoots 1oz as a line load. I said that's what I use. He shoots a 1-3/8's back at the fence. I was out of my shoot off loads then so I use my 1 oz line load. Six of us was in 1st place shoot off. To my amazement I still beat them with my 1oz line load. As I said. Ounce is an ounce at 1200 ft. regardless what gun it comes out of. I know there's a lot of disagreement about that but don't let the mind thing play with you. Their is atop shooter at a certain club I go to. Very hard guy to beat. He went thru a spell with new glasses an was missing more than his usual targets. When him and I are into a shoot off I mention to him that I don't think his glasses are correct yet. I know he thinks about that and in general I can beat him. Once I place that in his mind he considers that and throws him off. Just my thought. Bill

I belong to an INTENSE trap club here . Chris Vendel and his kid have been lighting it up for a long time now . They are very into full loads and only rarely practice with lighter loads . The club likes to follow along . A few shoot 1ozers routinely and one guy is an old skeeter turned trap guy . (former national champ skeeter ) I had a few of my 3/4 12's as I had finally got my ole trap gun out , and as we talked about loads , I gave him one to try randomly .(14.5grns of 700x, a silver wad & 3/4 7.5's) He was shooting 23yd handi , was straight the 1st 24 and got the shell in hand and what the hell . Broke it the same as the others ! He now shoots 3/4 8.5 loads for his 16yders . What I believe the pt of this is : when you lighten a load , the core seems to tighten . Most guys won't admit it , but they are a little flinchy , and when they get a little off , seem to think they need the bigger shells . Eventually , they get bonged out and either shoot lighter or quit . when they go lighter , it's always - why didn't I Do this yrs ago !!?? Nick should have invented the DR 40 yrs ago , and so many more of us would know how great a target gun a 16 could be !!

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1310 Location: Western WA

Davis,

Since you are talking trap here, here's a question on SxS field guns (low or no rib): How do top trap shooters handle the hard left and right birds when the SxS barrels block out the bird from the master eye while swinging through the bird?

BTW, my 2 9/16 Auto 5 has very little perceptible recoil with 1 oz compared to my double guns, just the funky long action cycle.

TIA,

Brewster

Most guys shoot single barrel or O/U's . Ask Nick about recoil ! Mikey Campbell would be the one to ask about double SxS as he's done quite a bit of trap with his Foxs . You need to elevate the muzzle of a double for trap as you need to cover the rise , but , you really need to be a guy who can see the bird and forget the barrel . 12ga doubles with trap loads will kick the crap out of you . In spite of the gun you shoot , if you shoot at trap speed , the load is basically moot as long as the shell is the speed you are used to . ( I , Nick and a few others lurking have shot ourselves into a recoil pile of dust . It may not affect you today or tomorrow , but it WILL get you someday ! There are 2 real big clues for target shooters that they are overkill .. one is that the Olympic scores went UP , not Down when the load requirement went down ! The other is : take a look at a great skeet shooter 's 410 scores and when he's run 400 straight , you'll realize that 3/4 takes care of everything . WHOFamer Craig Parsons now uses his 20 for the 12 ga singles - only uses his 1100 for ahoot-offs thinking being he may be more inclined to make an iffy shot and it could save him .)(he just did 396 in the NYS shoot for 2nd overall )

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Being a former avid registered trap shooter, I agree w/ 16gaDavis regarding how effective light trap loads can be. I learned a long while back what the better International trap shooters had to learn out of necessity. 24 gram (7/8 ounce) loads will crush trap targets at any reasonable range. Keep in mind that International tarp targets are thrown faster and farther than ATA targets. Once the 24 gram load rule was passed by FITA, the average scores went up. That says it all.

I don't need 1-1/8 ounce target loads to hit them all. In fact, I did not shoot my first registered 100 straight until I made the transition to 24 gram loads. While I've never tried 3/4 ounce 12 ga. loads, I don't see any reason why they won't crush singles and 19 to 23 yard H-cap targets as long as both shooter and trap gun can put the pattern core dead on the target.

It is the 12 inch diameter core of the pattern and only the core which reliably smashes trap targets. Pattern fringes are too unpredictable to depend on. All the best trap shooters know this. Their guns are set up to put that 12" pattern core dead on the target and they practice to that end. They know that 99 out of 100 won't win them anything. It's got to be perfect or they might as well go home. Just how ATA shooting is.

[quote="mike Campbell The key is hard focus on the target and being only peripherally aware of the muzzle; easier said than done for some folks, especially those with any eyesight issues.[/quote]

This why I claim the best wing shooters consider it an act of faith. We focus our eyes and our minds on the mark, not the gun. We mount and swing the gun knowing it will put the pattern square on what our eyes and mind are focused on. We trip the trigger when our faith in our craft and our gun tells us it is time. We take it on faith the target will break or the bird will drop...and it does.

I can't put it any simpler than that.