16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

This summer I purchased 2 cases of Herter's dove and quail 1 oz. loads from Cabelas for $65 per case. Cheap enough for sure and my expectations really were not too high, especially when I could see a good quantity of shot riding above the cup in the semi transparent hull. However, after using up most of the first case I have yet to find a single wad that has actually opened up. The stitched petals stay stitched. The wads appear to be a variant of Gualandi with the "helix" cushion section.
Research has shown that when a wad does not open up and drop away properly it rams the back of the shot string, disrupting the pellets there. The phenomenon has been photographed. Not cool. I wouldn't exactly call the shot hard either. The loads do break targets at modest distances but the performance is noticeably weaker than 7/8 or 1 oz. reloads with WAA16 wads and magnum shot.
The bright side is that I have had plenty of fun burning them up and my collection of high capacity Cheddite hulls is looking good. I suppose they will do alright on doves this week with my tight bored Fox. The increased stringing and loser patterns will probably help me hit the little gray buggers. Once the doves get wise, out come the reloads!

Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

No way around the "get what you pay for" rule. I have used a lot of the Herters shells. However they don't perform like my reloads using quality components. Main thing I notice with any of the bargain priced shells is sharp recoil. Guessing they use very fast powder, no doubt they use the cheapest shot. Match both with a wad that won't open pattern is going to suffer.

Boats

Stitching on wads and whether it breaks apart or not, has no effect on patterns.

Joined: 15 Jun 2010 Posts: 1358 Location: Twin Cities, MN

Dogchaser is correct. Wether wads open up or not does not affect patterns. DR 16s don't always "unstitch" and they perform well. All Remington wads are stitched and often stay together and my RXP20s and PT28s are considered excellent wads. Unless you are shooting targets or live birds at distances greater than 40 yards the quality of components really does not make much of a difference. A 60 yard FITASC target requires good components and a well placed shot, but your average 25 yard sporting target, skeet target or 16 yard trap target can be crushed with anything. Shot placement has a much greater effect then the quality of the shell or the interior barrel profile. I have shot many cases of the Herter's and thought they performed well. I prefer my 7/8 and 3/4 oz reloads because they give less recoil and are less expensive. Look at the target or bird and stop thinking about your equipment.
Regards,
Jeff

I bought a case of Herters 16 ga. 1 oz. loads in 6's last year for my MT hunt and did well on Sharpies, will use them again for my WY trip

Agree with DC. It is my feeling also that a wad that might not "open" does not seem to affect patterns. I have used one flat of the Herters 16s. Shot them for sptg clays with son-in-law a few weeks ago and we both seemed to shoot above our usual scores. I would buy again.

Joined: 18 Jun 2014 Posts: 312 Location: Western Wisconsin

I've shot 2-3 flat a of the Herters 1oz target loads and have had zero complaints. They break targets and the recoil is very light for a 1oz load. I have not patterned them but the way the work for sporting clays, skeet and pasture trap, they seem to work just fine.

i agree with DC and the rest of the guys here; properly loaded one piece plastic wads don't have the mass to keep up with the shot swarm after the pellets leave the barrel. The wad very quickly falls behind the swarm.

I've seen the same type of individual high speed photography frames. The opinion the wad is slamming into the rear of the shot swarm is a misinterpretation of what is happening. Usually, the pellets at the rear of the shot column are the ones which are confined and delayed the longest inside by the choke section of the barrel. They collide the most with each other, are slowed down more, and spread more quickly as the tail end of the swarm leaves the barrel. This is normal for any shot swarm. A few frames later, even these slower pellets will be way ahead of the plastic wad.

However, a wad which has been twisted and/or crushed when rammed into the hull can get fouled up w/ the shot after it is dropped in. Misshapen wad petals can get folded into the shot column when the load is crimped. This can also happen if the wad is seated too shallow. The petals will get tangled up with the crimp folds and will disrupt the shot column as the hull opens. In these cases, part of the shot column can get trapped by the misshapen wad petals. Patterns can and will be adversely affected.

One more thing to keep in mind. Like any other firearm, a shotgun is a law unto itself. Some individual guns and loads just aren't compatible. It could also be these loads don't hit to the right POI for you out of that particular gun. I'd try a different brand if I were you. You might want to first do some range testing and patterning for POI and densities to be sure.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Now that I have everyone's attention, let me ask the following. Has anyone actually unstitched the wad and then compared the patterns with the non opening wads? The concept of having petals on the wad exists for a reason. I can say from experience that unslit steel shot wads can produce some scary results. I tried it 20 years ago to see if patterns tightened. The result was a partial slug with few pellets leaving the wad at all.
There is one way to find out for sure...I can open up some of these, carefully separate the stitches and replace the shot and then crimp again. Seems like a sure fire way to isolate our variable and demonstrate how much of a difference it makes.

Member Joined: 16 Nov 2006 Posts: 1338

Joined: 03 Feb 2008 Posts: 830 Location: Adirondak Mtns

[quote="mike campbell"]And if you discover that it makes a big difference, whatcha gonna do then? Wink

[/quote]

Michael, you do cut right to the case.

I get a kick out of this stuff........if we think of this stuff, doesn't it ever occur to anyone that the guy that designs the wads probably did too?

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

If it makes a difference I will post the results and move on...and file any useful information away for future use.
If the guy who designs the loads doesn't think of these things, someone likely reminds him. Bear in mind that many of these "things" are discovered after the fact. This brings forth the question: does he then care? That leads to the next question: after investing the money in production (and thus needing a return on said investment) does the manufacturer care? Especially if someone else's name is on the box.
Let's face the facts, promotional loads are aimed at one consumer group, those who only look at the price and really have little concept of how the things work as long as the shell goes bang. That's fine for practice shooting and also fine for those willing to work within the limitations once they are discovered.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska