16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 07 Nov 2014 Posts: 44 Location: cuero, texas

All, here is a response I got regarding a request I made to Winchester powder for recipes using the low brass Super X hull.
"There is little data available for the 16ga Super X hulls, simply because there are multiple version of the hull all requiring separate load data. The original Super X hulls were the AA Compression style one piece hull. Recent lots have shown them to be using 3-piece hulls purchased from secondary manufacturers such as Cheddite. We do not have any load data designed for these hulls as we cannot guarantee recipes with a changing variable."
I am unable to accurately identify just what hull I have and will keep the re-sized/primed hulls I have ready on the shelf until I can figure it out. I read this forum daily, enjoy it and seem to become more confused. I load for my Smith doubles and really enjoy using them. I appreciate this site so much, Tom Kilgore

best way is to get a saw out and carefully cut the base apart on a diagonal . Smooth it up and you will be able to tell . One piece - easy . Chedd style - easy . The old in betweeners are really iffy with that big paper wad - toss them !

Tom, Did you buy these hulls factory loaded and shoot them yourself? If you bought them within the last 12 or 15 years and they came in the silver box and have brass colored heads, they are Cheddites -- plenty of load data available for them. It does not matter whether you have the high or low brass, they are the same inside. They will be 6-point crimped. The hull tube is straight-walled/constant thickness with lengthwise rib texture on the outside. There are some other hulls used in Xpert or Super-X in the earlier part of that timeframe, but they are so similar you needn't worry about the difference.

If you find any plastic hulls marked Winchester/Western Xpert/Super-X/Ranger/SuperSpeed with ribbed straight-walled with paper basewads, throw them out. They are made the same inside as the old Win/West paper hulls of the '40's, '50's and '60's. The high brass ones have low basewads inside, and the low brass ones have higher basewads inside. You can load them, but they are mostly junk by now. There is a later version of this hull with a plastic basewad, and that's the confusing one. They are very hard to confuse with a Cheddite. They have the old style head-stamps. They have slightly different capacity to a Cheddite, but they load about the same -- still a flat-bottomed, thin, straight-walled Reiffenhauser-type hull. They are quite old, and it's probably unlikely you'd encounter any unless you've been around this for several decades. They existed simultaneously with Win/Western compression-formed shells, and in comparison to the CF's, they were considered immediately disposable, or only good for one or two re-loadings at best. They were no fun to reload, as they had an unsightly crimp with a melted/swirled center closure which left mouths of the fired cases notchy looking, and seldom produced handsome crimps on reloading. Most 6-point CF cases came with the same type of swirled center closure, but they could be forgiven because their stiffer plastic produced such a good hard re-crimp, and they lasted much longer.

Compression formed hulls are very easy to identify. The plastic has no ribs, but a sort of random wavy texture develops from the molding process. The plastic is very hard and tough. The walls taper inside and thicken toward the base to a sort of parabolic shape. Use a flashlight and have a look. Run a small screwdriver or scribe down the inside of the hull wall and feel the profile difference. Those hulls will be several decades old -- maybe 40 years or so. Good hulls to load, but a totally different animal. Some are 8-point and some 6-point. Some have the little melted swirly closure/seal in the center of the crimp, and some not. Most 8-pointers do not have the swirly center. We're talking about 16 ga. hulls here.

16gaDavis is correct. Select the funkiest, most beat up hull from the ones you have on hand. Then take a sharp knife and bisect the hull tube down the center lengthwise to the metal and remove one side. The tube wall contours and base wad type will be easy to see.

Compression formed or molded one piece plastic hulls have an integral base. Some will have tapered hull walls which get thicker toward the bottom but a few do not or have a very slight taper which is not as apparent. Regardless, one piece hulls do not have a base wad insert. The integral base is compression formed or molded in, so the hull body is basically a one piece plastic cup.

All polyformed hulls are assembled with straight, non-tapered tubes either made of extruded plastic tubing or from rolled waxed paper tubing. Paper hulls all have compressed paper or compressed fiber base wads as far as I know. Plastic polyformed hulls can have either a plastic base wad insert or one made of compressed paper or fiber depending on the manufacturer.

The latest Winchester polyformed hulls are a Cheddite type. They have a relatively flat molded plastic insert with a small ridge in it around the primer hole. Every one I've seen is gray in color. The older obsolete Winchester polyformed hulls had either compressed paper base wad inserts or molded plastic base wad inserts. These older plastic base wad inserts were flat w/o the molded in ridge around the primer and were also somewhat thicker. I've seen them in white and in black. There might be some other colors too, but you should be able to see the differences at a glance once the hull is bisected and one side is removed. It's also a good idea to save all your bisected hulls for future reference.