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Member Joined: 30 Oct 2010 Posts: 40 Location: illinois

How many roll crimps can one expect from various hulls?

Good question, but the answer has to be: not many, and highly variable. It seems to depend on a few things such as:
1) The roll crimper -- some are nice and smooth and some are really rough on hulls due to shape or finish. Old Lymans do the best for me -- very smoothly polished inside.
2) The person using the roll crimper -- the technique and how much "free" hull mouth is rolled over -- there's such a thing as too little, as well as too much
3) The hull material -- I think paper hulls with a little wax replacement can be roll crimped more times than plastic. Plastic gets soft and flows if you get it too hot, making the next crimp not so good.

My best guess is 2 or 3 loadings for most plastic hulls. Frankly, I have not tried more. Once the hull mouths get a little rippley I tend to shoot and release. Some folks shorten and roll crimp their old previously fold crimped hulls, which have got to be pretty tired material at first roll crimping. Can't imagine they get too much life.

I'd guess that I average about 3 loadings from my roll crimped 24 gauge hulls. I have a GAEP roll crimp head which is as smooth and well finished as any I've ever seen.

Unless you must I cannot see any reason to roll crimp - I must because no manufacturer makes a fold crimp press for 24 gauge. Also, it's the only way to get 13/16 ounce of shot into a 2 1/2 inch hull - 2 3/4 inch hulls are unavailable in 24 gauge. It's tedious and slow loading with no ballistic advantage that I can see.

Ditto, FlyChamps. I also have the GAEP roller for my 24's.

By the way, I can fold crimp my 24's, as I have converted a MEC 600 Jr. to 24 gauge. Made a special reamer to bore out a 28 gauge plastic MEC crimp die -- has a short taper on the end to produce the taper on the rim of the crimp. The MEC die also needs a crimp closing punch larger than a 28 and smaller than a 20, and the recess it fits into in the die needs to be enlarged -- a simple half inch square edged reamer does that trick. I've detailed all this elsewhere a while back. All the other mods are pretty simple -- bore out the re-size ring on a lathe, Dremel out a 28 gauge shell holder base -- use 28 or 20 gauge parts otherwise, wherever needed.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

I can easily get a 1 oz load in those 65mm Fiocchi 24 gauge hulls. I usually shoot 7/8 oz. Don't know why anyone would want to shoot 1 oz in a 24, but it is no problem -- same internal ballistics as a 1.125 oz. 20 gauge load, or a .9 oz load in the 28 -- and we know people are shooting 1 ounce from a 28, and with good velocity (>1200) if loaded in a flat-based straight-walled hull, such as these Fiocchi 24 gauge hulls are also. So here's my 7/8 ounce load:

Fiocchi 65 mm hull, Fio 616 or 615, 16.5 gr. Longshot, modified Ballistic Products Inc. (BPI) SG24 or BW24 (Gualandi wads), 7/8 oz. lead, can either be 6 point crimped or roll crimped depending on your wad arrangement. Shot from my Beretta 686, this load chronographs 1222 fps, with SD of 12 fps with the Fio 616 primer, and 1211 fps with SD of 23 with the Fio 615.

Somewhere on this forum is a picture of my wad mods. They are no big deal. Those Gualandi 24 gauge wads from BPI are so long you'll never get more than 11/16 ounce in those 65 mm hulls. For the 7/8 ouncer, I cut out one section of the recoil portion of the BPI SG24. Alternatively, I just cut the overpowder cup seal off either a BPI SG24 or BW24 (BW24 is same price as SG24, but yields TWO overpowder cups), and then use fillers (Circle Fly Wads) to attain the desired height. You can use the shot cup end from a SG24 if you like. With this load I also sometimes use a 28/20 gauge Spred-R device (from Ploywad, Inc.) -- perfect fit -- roll crimp right down on top of it if you like and the load is instantly identifiable as a spreader. Depending on your patterning desires and results, however, you might want to do as Mike Campbell has shown us, and put some of the shot on top of that Spred-R device and then roll or fold crimp over that.

Incidentally, 24 gauge card and fiber wads are very common in muzzleloader shops, as they are the same as .58 caliber.

Cheers!

Woops! You know we should have started another thread for this 24 ga. stuff, rather than hijack the original. We kind of segued into it, I guess. Matter of fact, some might not even like the 24 ga. talk on this 16 ga. site. I apologize!

Well, I do and I also like 32 gauge talk Shocked

I load for both

Mike

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2346 Location: West MI

Thanks MS, always looking for more 24ga recipes and techniques.

Not so much a hijack or derailment, more of an a siding as roll crimping is pretty much a necessity for we 24ga'ers not having a modified 600 or use a harten (spl chk) crimp.

putz, check your PM's