16ga.com ~ View topic

800X is to big a flake to get past the gas seal. 800X also drops very poorly, it has always been recommended that this powder be weighed not dropped from a bushing. If there was no powder in the barrel behind the wad , there was little or no powder in the shell to begin with. A deeper crimp setting would have produced dished in crimps if there was no powder.As you say that the crimp setting was very high so the dishing didnt happen.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2349 Location: West MI

Agree with the lack of powder idea. I'm kinda thinking along the lines as byrdog in that 800 doesn't meter well. I have had trouble with it hanging up and giving inconsistent drops.

But being a bulky powder, it seems to me that the missed powder dropped shells would have very obvious dished in crimps and a much different feel during wad seating.

Most Cheds are fairly translucent, if there are any of the questionable reloads left, hold them up close to a light bulb and see what you see. You should be able to see migration or cocked wads or missing powder drops or....

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Bdog/puts,

Very logical thought, but while I might have sleep walked through a couple, I hand weigh every shot and powder fill.

I also hand insert the wad then just use the push bar to seat it down.

Then it is a puzzlement. was there unburned powder behind the wad?

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Thinking back, I remember seeing an amount in the 'legs' of the SP16 wads. This of course could have been pushed in there as I rammed the wad out of the barrels.

I just have to believe the issue was a result of the world's worst crimps. Guess that is how you learn!

Loading 100% reliable hunting loads for a given purpose is a matter of matching available components in order to get reliable performance for the desired load in any weather. It isn't always easy for us 16 ga. reloaders due to a relative dearth of matching wads and hulls. While, a small amount of powder migration may not be the sole cause of squib loads weak enough to cause stuck wads, it can be a contributing factor in combination with several other problems. I've not had the problem w/ 16 ga. loads, but I have with one 28 gauge load I used back in the 90's.

The problem load in question was a 7/8 ounce heavy 28 ga load as follows: Fiocchi hull, WW571 ball powder (see HS-7, same stuff), 7/8 ounces of #7 shot, a 3/4 ounce Pattern Control (blue) wad, Remington 209P primer. Powder migration was a slight problem in this hull wad combo, but it was not the only factor why the loads produced occasional bloopers w/ or w/o an occasional stuck wad.

The Remington 209P primer called for in the data was not hot enough to reliably ignite the conservative charge of WW571 ball when temperatures dipped below freezing. Average peak pressures were listed as around 9200 PSI (presumably at about 70 F) which was perhaps not enough APP to get the powder burning well enough when the air temps were below freezing in spite of the very well formed crimps. The hull wad combo did not allow enough column height to increase the powder charges and still get good crimps. I'm sure the slight amount of powder migration did not help in consideration of the other problems at work.

My solution was to go to a Federal 209A primer which was hot enough to ignite the powder charge under any conditions. I'm certain average peak pressures were increased. I've no real idea how much, but I very much doubt they went over 11K PSI. The bloopers stopped, and the load became reliable enough to take birds in the coldest conditions.

*Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Tue Oct 27, 2015 10:19 am; edited 1 time in total*

Duplicate post deleted.

we are twice blessed ?

Computer glitch. It happens--even to the perfect folks among us like you. Laughing

Were you using new hulls? On what press? (MEC 600, Mec SizeMaster, Lee Load All 2 etc)

I also reload Cheddite hulls and use SG16 & SG16S wads. I don't use 800X, been using Green Dot and SR7625 on hand in quantity and so haven't experimented with that powder. I have found that new Cheddite hulls need the 6 point BPI super crown crimp starter on my Sizemaster or they tend to open up. However, once fired Herter's hulls (Cheddite made) crimp very nicely with the factory crimp starter. Maybe purchase a flat of Herter's shells from a local Cabela's or shipped in and after using them try to reload these hulls. See if your problems are gone. Also do you have the BPI 16 gauge load book? A good place to check that your load is a tested load and known to work. Also, do you have a scale? Are you measuring the powder drop and also the shot drop to see if you're getting the correct amounts? MEC charge bars and bushings are not always throwing their rated amounts.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1309 Location: Western WA

Charlie16,

SP16 is a sloppy fit in Cheddite hulls. You might have blowby as a result. It happens. SG16 is much better than SP16 for Cheddites and 800X. So is Z16.

Good luck

Brewster