16ga.com ~ View topic - 16ga reloading data... is the Low Pressure group still on?

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

Actually joined the 16ga forums here because folks said it was a good source for reloading info. I've read the "low pressure group" sticky, but not all 8 pages. However, many of the posts seem to indicate to me that
1. the group is not active or only sporadically so
2. The loads I'm interested in -- Steel shot and Heavy Weight for waterfowling-- are not covered by the group.
3. Normal pressure hunting loads with modern available components or wads may not be the emphasis

SkeetTX made several posts directing folks to the yahoo.uk group, which I have also joined... never been part of a yahoo group, not sure how it works, and can't find any reloading data there either?

So, sorry for what I'm sure is a common question but--- WHERE and how do I find modern 16ga "normal pressure" and waterfowl reloading info? (that's different or more than BPI, Alliant, Hodgdon, Lyman's data).
Thanks!

*Last edited by skeettx on Sun Dec 06, 2015 5:21 pm; edited 1 time in total*

I sent you a PM

Thanks
Mike

You have to have excel or open office to open the files. If you don't have excell you can download the excel reader here.
http://www.microsoft.com/en-us/download/details.aspx?id=10

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

wow is that joining of a yahoo group hard!

Sent a PM to you oldhunter, thanks for your follow up and info from Mike. I'm sure it's just my ignorance, but I thought I'd joined up with my own email, and now it's making me create a yahoo email... I did, which of course has messed up what you approved I'd guess...

If there's an easy way to actually sign in without a yahoo email address, and use what you approved, I'd love to know it.

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

Woohoo, I'm in!
thanks for the help guys. Looking at reloading data now, lots of good stuff to keep me busy.

Looks like some of the Low Pressure guys are making the reloading data available to anyone and everyone. I suppose that's the way it goes. However, you new guys/non-members, please be aware that we members of that group paid for the production of the data and maintenance of the site, and it was for the members to share with each other, not with non-members. You're getting quite a bit for free. This parasitic action basically puts a crimp on the further production of data by the low pressure group.

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

MaximumSmoke,
Thanks for the warm welcome.

You took the time to complain that someone else, interested in 16ga loading, got access to some data-- but you didn't take the time to answer any question, tell what types of loads were covered (steel, normal hunting etc. as my first post in this thread asked), and couldn't take the time to go over the $20 fee payment and how to do that?

Within 3 hours of noticing someone (finally) got access, you took the time to complain about parasitic behaviour... But NOT to say, "Welcome to the group, I see you read the sticky and had questions-- here's some answers, and how to pay."

My sincere thanks to skeettx, who took the time to PM me and get me started and chat on the phone, and also to oldhunter who worked through yahoo groups email/access hell with me-- much appreciated!

Maximum, if you look at my first post, you'll see I had confusion on how to join... skeettx and oldhunter helped me join a Yahoo group (I THINK it's the low-pressure group, but since I haven't read much yet I'm not sure...). If you read through all 8 pages of the "16ga low pressure reloading group" sticky, you might notice there are over a dozen folks ASKING HOW TO PAY. You might also notice that a specific address is never given...

I followed the directions and help I got from the folks that responded as best I could. If you had sent me a PM or replied to my questions, explaining to me that I had to pay $20 first before getting access to even see if the steel or HW waterfowl loads I was looking for were included, I'm sure that's the process I would have followed.
If you're the guy I'm supposed to send a PayPal to, my apologies-- your name didn't come up anywhere in the 8 pages of the sticky, maybe I missed another thread on that.

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

Not real sure what I'm looking at here for files. I'm going to summarize everythig I've found, as load-content was a question often asked but I never saw it answered. I'll also list the non-tox specific self-tests or info I see, since that's what started me looking for loads here at 16ga to start with. Here's what I see. Please let me know if I'm missing or misinterpreting these files:

1. _16 loads low pressureDec 29.xls This appears to be sorted by two tabs, powder and "low pressure", which is data sorted by wads. The powder tab has 14 loads that appear to be non-commercial tested. The wad-sorted tab appears to have 21 non-commercial tested, of which the previous 14 are a subset.
The majority of the data is commercial data from Lymans, BPI, etc.
There is no steel data, and no HeavyWeight data that I see in this file, which makes sense as this particular file seems to be a filtering of the lower-pressure commercial loads, as well as the ones guys paid a lot of $ to get tested themselves (kudos!). I think this one is for guys with older guns mostly concerned with pressure.

2. __16 loads revise July 10.xls This appears to be most of the same commercial data from spreadsheet above. However, it has this disclaimer on the intro page:
1. This spreadsheet is not affiliated with the Low Pressure Group. It is an accumulation of loads from the powder manufacturers and reloading manuals. Also some loads that were sent in and tested by members of the 16 Gauge Forum,
So I'm pretty sure THAT's not the low pressure group stuff.
File is sorted by Hull types.
There are 74 loads that are non-commercial tested.
Of these, there are 4 that are ITX, Nice, HS loads; the rest are from commercial sources (BPI, Hodgdon, Lyman or Alliant). That's a LOT of self-tested loads, and the non-tox may be of especial interest to some:
- a HS load of 1-3/8oz in Rio hull, VP80, using 2400 powder; this is the only 2400 powder non-tox I've seen, AND 1-3/8oz is the heaviest load I've seen in 16 ga: BPIs heaviest is 1-1/8oz.
- a TM load of 1-1/8 in Fiocchi, VP80, with IR4756.

3. _16 Gauge Powders july 10.xls This appears to be the same data as the above file, non-low-pressure-group data, but sorted in tabs by powder. Note that the different sorting method makes if really useful/easy to look up loads whether you're constrained by powder OR wads (below) OR Hulls (file above). Great!

4. _16 loads revise wads Apr 8.xls This appears to be the same data as the above two files, except sorted in tabs by wads. The 4 "tested" loads I looked up and crosschecked were also in the #2 file "non-low-pressure-group" above.

Very nice source of spreadsheeted commercial data, in spreadsheets and easy to look at.

I believe my own best contribution will be to help flesh out the 16ga data to get the gauge back out in the duck-marsh: some tested 16ga Steel+ HW13 or TSS (Tungsten Super Shot) mixed loads with penetration-range matched pellets that can achieve sufficient CONSEP pellet counts with excellent ranges, which is where 16ga 7/8oz or 15/16oz commercial or published waterfowl loads fail.

Best regards,
Dave

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Dave,

As a newer member of the LPG I can tell you that RWG is the guy you need to get a hold of to gain access. It cost $20 for the LPG data. Took about a week or so to get access once I made contact. It did take a few months to make contact.

Like you I hope to see more non toxic development. I think we'er going to need it.

Dave -- Sorry about the parasitic comment, but I guess if the shoe fits, wear it. Nobody singled you out. Thanks to Charlie16ga you just got another good steer on the proper way to join, but the Low Pressure Group and how to join it is really old, old news. Any small search would have gotten you that oft repeated info on joining. What irritates me is Low Pressure Group members that simply forward the load info to anybody and everybody, and what seems to be the expectation of some newer folks that 16 Ga. Society membership entitles one to the info from the Low Pressure Group. Then once these same people somehow get access to the data, sometimes they complain about the information (presentation, completeness, accuracy, etc, etc.)! It gets old.

So join and get the benefits. If that was your intent, more power to you. And be patient and recognize that the site cannot be attended all the time. It's unfortunate, but there are limits to the grace of volunteers. If you can't wait for that, go buy a load book from Balistic Products, Lyman, etc. etc.

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

Happy to pay $20, not really for info but more to help along some folks who actually get out there and TEST loads, and share the result. PM in to RWG, I guess we'll see if he'll tell me what the paypal address to send $ to is Wink

Although it appears, per my post above, that many more loads were tested and shared by 16ga.com members outside the auspices of the LPG than inside, not sure what I'm reading there of the relationship between groups and data.

Maximum, for your peace of mind:
1. No one "forwarded" me anything.
2. PM sent to RWG per the LPG thread...
3. While reading the 8pg LPG thread and all the posts about how long some folks waited, with which I am just fine thankyou, I saw a link to a yahoo group... I clicked it and went there, there was a button that said "join the group"-- I clicked it. Someone replied. Didn't have any idea if THAT was the LPG or some other org, still not 100% sure. Pretty sure clicking a button and seeing what happens is still kosher on the internet...

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 819

Apples and Oranges and ??

Three different things

One is 16GA and one is LPG and one is Yahoo.

16GA is the symbol you wish and have paid for.
We currently have no moderator.
s_long is a friend of the family of Doug and is to be commended
on his efforts to maintain this site Smile

LPG (Low Pressure Group) is a separate organization that requires
a separate membership fee. RWG is in charge of that group.
His last post on 16GA.Com was nearly a year and a half ago.

The Yahoo group is free and all together different. You must enroll and be approved to view the data. It is FREE and oldhunter is in charge of that group. He is very active on this site.

Hope this sheds some light.

Mike

Joined: 13 Oct 2015 Posts: 348

Thanks Mike, that helps.

Upon getting access to the Yahoo site, MaximumSmoke up above immediately posted about folks getting "free access" to the Low Pressure Group data, it seemed he was accusing me of getting LPG data without paying. That's what confused me; and also the naming of one of the files on the Yahoo group site, and I started this trying to find out about the LPG-- it wasn't clear to me that the Yahoo info was a different thing; and I guess it's not clear to others like MaximumSmoke either.

To try to clear it up and figure out what I had joined, I posted a summary up above of what I found in the spreadsheets, so someone who knew could pop by and let me know-- thanks for doing so.

I want to say a big "THANKS!" to oldhunter, those spreadsheets are really great and a lot of work! I tried to count up and state the numbers of "self tested" loads I found, as well as specifically the "self tested" waterfowl loads, both to figure out what I was looking at (was it the LPG data, as MaximumSmoke immediately posted), AND to just help describe what was in there. If anyone took that as a critique, that's absolutely wrong-- just trying to be specific about content for other folks like me looking for non-tox and waterfowl loads.

Clearly there are a LOT of self-tested pressure loads in there, some of them using components now available and that you'll WANT to use but that don't have data from Alliant etc., and a lot of effort by oldhunter gathering tons of info and compiling it into extremely useful sortings. That was the other thing I was trying to do up above by listing specifically what I found in the spreadsheets, trying to show the numerous ways that loads have been organized. Again, a LOT of work, and SO helpful to be able to say, "my problem is finding a load for this POWDER, here's a nice listing by powders!", or "I've got only this one wad, wish I had all the listings sorted by wad!"-- well, it looks like oldhunter has done all that work.

Having compiled for my own use all the steel and non-tox data for 12ga into an excel file from Alliant, Hodgdon, Lymans, BPI, RSI, Precision Lightning Steel, etc., I know how intensely precise you have to be to ensure the data transfers correctly without error, and how much typing is involved-- hard typing! The Yahoo Group 16 gauge files are a great resource and I offer my sincere thanks to oldhunter and all involved!

Best regards,
Dave

Joined: 28 Aug 2014 Posts: 924 Location: Eastern Tennessee

Mike,

I was able to get a response from rwg in the last 3 months so he's out there.

I'm in hope to see some fast steel 15/16 oz loads developed for waterfowl and pheasant in addition to slower, smaller loads for dove. Don't trust my own skill and consistency to test and share with the group. Leave that to the local experts!