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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ I was curious about the fired DR 16 wads |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:04 am
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Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 325
Location: West Texas
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So I went out and picked up a few that I shot yesterday. All these were propelled out of Federal hulls with Winchester primers on 16.6 +/- gn.s of International carrying 3/4 oz of # 8 Magnum shot. That should be in the neighborhood of 1300 fps. From a Browning White Lightening w 26" barrels choked M & M.
[img][URL=http://s979.photobucket.com/user/parkerm11/media/Fired%20DR%2016%201_zps4hmdcrlt.jpg.html]
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and there is this one.
[img][URL=http://s979.photobucket.com/user/parkerm11/media/Fired%20DR%2016%202_zpsqlov79mc.jpg.html]
[/URL][/img]
Any thoughts? |
_________________ 16 - The only "True" gauge
16 ga. Citori White Lightning
3- 16 ga. Remington M 31's
16 ga. Ithaca M 37 Featherlight |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:43 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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How did they perform on the intended targets?
Looks like you got good setback of shot in the wad cup
Mike |
Last edited by skeettx on Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:01 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:57 am
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Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 325
Location: West Texas
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skeettx wrote: |
How did they perform on the intended targets?
Looks like you got good setback of shot in the wad cup
Mike
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Adequate I suppose. I had a bad day. I kept raising my head and missing. But when I was on they broke well.
I forgot to mention that all the wads were picked up at distances of 40-50 yds from the point I fired them from. They are easy to find with that color. |
_________________ 16 - The only "True" gauge
16 ga. Citori White Lightning
3- 16 ga. Remington M 31's
16 ga. Ithaca M 37 Featherlight |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 10:00 am
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Member
Joined: 15 Apr 2007
Posts: 9464
Location: Amarillo, Texas
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Good, so they reloaded well, functioned well, shot well and have a distinctive color.
You can not reload most of them a second time, but they were not intended for multiple use
Mike |
Last edited by skeettx on Sat Apr 02, 2016 3:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 11:39 am
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Joined: 18 Feb 2014
Posts: 30
Location: New Zealand
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They look exactly like mine do. Perhaps like you, I also was surprised by the variation in petal outcomes, particularly the ones where the stich remains in place for 3 but the 4th petal has blown completely off.
I have not done any point of impact tests. Does anyone think it affects performance? I always thought the shot and wad parted company pretty much immediately on exiting the muzzle.
Richard. |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 12:13 pm
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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I brought these issues up over a year ago. I was treated like a traitor for criticizing the revered and sacred DR-16. The inconstant end product and the fact that they land so much further out than other cup wads indicates to me that something needs improving. I am a true believer in "if it works dont fix it" But I LIVE on "Never underestimate the POWER of denial" I have loaded this wad in a few different component combinations and I dont think it is that great. Unbroken targets that I was sure should have powdered occurs about 10% of the time. Although I will admit to having severely impaired vision.
When I create something I have a tendency to believe it is better than it really is, thats human nature. When this influences the need to correct or improve it I become defensive. and see what I want to see and am not as critical of details as I should be. I think that there is much more potential in the DR-16 and it with a little tweaking it could be the wad we wish it were. |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:15 pm
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Joined: 06 Mar 2013
Posts: 33
Location: Virginia's Northern Neck
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It takes a little time, but I use a knife and cut through all the petal seams because I want them to be uniform. Whether it matters or not, I don't know, but it makes me feel better. |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:21 pm
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Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 325
Location: West Texas
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kiwicharlin wrote: |
They look exactly like mine do. Perhaps like you, I also was surprised by the variation in petal outcomes, particularly the ones where the stich remains in place for 3 but the 4th petal has blown completely off.
I have not done any point of impact tests. Does anyone think it affects performance? I always thought the shot and wad parted company pretty much immediately on exiting the muzzle.
Richard.
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Yes I was somewhat concerned that the petals didn't peel back and/or reverse direction. I saw a great many 12 gauge wads down range that had completely peeled and reversed, and as you said they didn't seem to travel as far out from the firing line. But these were my first real test of my first real real reloads so I wasn't sure what I should be seeing.
For my next batch I am planning on reducing velocity to around 1100 fps to be more in line with the GL's that I have been shooting before I started reloading. The felt recoil at 1300 fps with 3/4 oz loads is pretty much the same as 1 oz 1100 fps to my shoulder.
I doubt that will open the DR 16 wads any better though. So I just might take the time to cut the stitches loose like Beowulf does.
It's not hard to pick up a few of these spent wads and I can experiment in different locations for a while so that there is no cross contamination so to speak.
MP |
_________________ 16 - The only "True" gauge
16 ga. Citori White Lightning
3- 16 ga. Remington M 31's
16 ga. Ithaca M 37 Featherlight |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:26 pm
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 756
Location: Mn.
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kiwicharlin wrote: |
They look exactly like mine do. Perhaps like you, I also was surprised by the variation in petal outcomes, particularly the ones where the stich remains in place for 3 but the 4th petal has blown completely off.
I have not done any point of impact tests. Does anyone think it affects performance? I always thought the shot and wad parted company pretty much immediately on exiting the muzzle.
Richard.
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I do not believe it affects performance at all. And you are correct the shot and wad separate within inches of leaving the barrel where the wad has done its job.
I don't worry too much about wads unless they crack on me
Or even worse start to fracture into pieces when it is really cold
In those cases it is time to change to a different wad. Those DR16 wads look pretty good to me. |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:36 pm
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Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 325
Location: West Texas
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But that's the question isn't it? If they separate within inches of exiting the barrel how does a wad that has 1/10 the mass (maybe I should weigh it) arrive at a point down range where the target is impacted. Not saying I can hit targets with the wad, just that the distance traveled seems extreme. |
_________________ 16 - The only "True" gauge
16 ga. Citori White Lightning
3- 16 ga. Remington M 31's
16 ga. Ithaca M 37 Featherlight |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 1:47 pm
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 756
Location: Mn.
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I've broken targets with the wad before LOL. Usually it was the old green dusters that have some pellets embedded in the base of the cup. But the wad travels a lot slower than the shot column so means I was behind the target.
Thick heavy petal wads like the green dusters, DR XXL, and DR16 the petals don't normally fold back much on exit if at all. And I have found the dusters and XXL travel a lot farther than thin OEM wads or 8 petal claybusters, etc. It is likely due to heavier weight and lower air resistance.
If you have ever shot 35 yard patterns it is not unusual to find wad holes in your paper. And plenty of wads 10-20 yards in front of a trap house they wreck havoc on mover blades. That would put distance at 35+ yards for many wads. I don't think it is excessive or causes an issue personally. As long as the target breaks and they do their job when I do my part I don't worry about it. |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 2:38 pm
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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I did not say worry about it. I said there is room for improvement. I unstiched about 200 DR-16 's before loading them and they were better but no better than the B&P wad which is less expensive. I do use the fired DR's OP cup with the BP-12 which is really a 16ga shot cup not a 12. Makes a killer all purpose 1.125 #4 or #6 blastem load. Really Rolls Rabbits ! |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 6:38 pm
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Joined: 03 Feb 2014
Posts: 325
Location: West Texas
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I'm a little happier now. This afternoon I shot another 100 of the DR 16 3/4 oz 1300 fps reloads. But this time I took out my Model 37. For some reason I have found that I am much more likely to hit with it than the Browning and it proved true again today. I smashed probably 75% (I didn't really count). I still haven't gotten the smoke ball I'd like to see but good solid multi piece breaks will do as a substitute. There are few things I think could be better about the 37 but the fit is not one of them.
Still planning to drop down to 1100 fps and see how that works. |
_________________ 16 - The only "True" gauge
16 ga. Citori White Lightning
3- 16 ga. Remington M 31's
16 ga. Ithaca M 37 Featherlight |
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Posted:
Thu Mar 31, 2016 8:20 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Before anyone thinks there is a problem with the wads, perhaps you should pattern the loads?
I have and I posted the results years ago, when the DR-16 was brand new.
The patterns are solid, the ballistics, from a consistency POV are good also.
This is more Henny Penny the sky is falling nonsense.
Those wads not opening up have nothing to do with pattern performance. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 01, 2016 8:12 am
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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Patterns are useless for determining the efficiency of a wad. Patterns are a comparative test method used when all things are equal except one. To set up a real time test for consistency would be involved but it can be done. |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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