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Ted
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 7:37 am  Reply with quote
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Location: Bottom of Michigan

I now have the okay to shoot my recently acquired 16-gauge German pin-fire gun (as soon as Brad Bachelder gets the locks working properly). I have components for loading the shells including both plastic and brass hulls, pins, wads, etc. which I had shipped from France and England.

My questions now are how much and what kind of black powder and how much shot to load. I have never shot black powder and don't know much about it. I'm not interested in "power" - I just want to hear the old girl go "bang" and see the cloud of smoke. If the clay breaks, fine. Hopefully it will be shot at the UP SxS shoot this year.

If anyone is aware of a source for loaded shells, I would be interested.

Ted
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Jagdhund
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 9:11 am  Reply with quote
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There is data available for Pyrodex from Hodgdon. Pyrodex is somewhat more forgiving than black as far as corrosion. If you want to do black, use the same amount BY VOLUME as the Pyrodex loads. In my cartridge guns, Pyrodex Triple 7 will gave substantially higher velocity than RS Pyrodex. If you want to use black, Swiss powders will burn the cleanest and give the highest velocities. Black/Pyrodex takes up a lot of room, so finding a plastic wad that will not take up too much room will be difficult. I generally use Alcan plactic over powder wads and enough card wads to get a crimp, unless I want to go authentic, then Iuse a .200 card over powder in place of the plastic OP. Black burns better if it is somewhat compressed, at least in metallic cartridges. I have never experimented with compression of black in shotshells. Some people feel a "hot" primer gives cleaner burns. I've never played with primers to see how much difference it makes. Hull life of paper and plastic is short, but that may not be a concern with your pin-fire cases. Black is fun. You might have to "duck the smoke cloud" to see where the birds fall. The first time you touch one off, your buddies will wonder what the h*** happened!

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skeettx
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:13 am  Reply with quote
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Remember, of major consideration, the black powder must be compressed, no loose air pocket.

Here is what I do, I set the dipper at 7/8 ounce of shot.

I use the same dipper setting for 2F black powder. I prime the all brass hull, dip the powder, press in an over powder wad, dip the shot, over shot wad, elmers glue the wad.

OR

I use the same dipper setting for 2F black powder. I prime the plastic hull, dip the powder, press in an over powder wad, dip the shot, 6 star crimp. I only use plastic hulls once and then they are trash.

Now more, I sometimes use plastic wads, yes they string plastic in the bore, but it cleans up easily Very Happy

Mike
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Carlos
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:41 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 602
Location: Victoria BC Canada

Skeetx has good info. I would add a cushion wad as well, but the diffence is minor - perhaps a bit tighter pattern. As you are priming with percussion caps, your options are whatever is available at a good price. Probably #11s will fit, but try a tin each of what you have or can get as there are MINOR differnces in tolerances. 7/8 oz is what I would go with, and no more than the same volume of BP FFg. (FFFg might be too fast & give more pressure than you want.) Less powder will tighten patterns if that becomes an issue. Compression need not be extreme. I use a piece of copper pipe as a wad-seater, and just lean on it firmly.

The classic sealer is "water glass". Elmers works & is what I have used, but I've also heard good things about Glue-Gun.

Remember our previous thread;

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=10279&highlight=pinfire
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Ted
PostPosted: Tue Mar 01, 2011 10:50 am  Reply with quote
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Thank you. That was exactly the information I wanted.

I'm looking forward to having fun with this gut at the UP shoot.

Ted
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Carlos
PostPosted: Sun Sep 18, 2016 10:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2010
Posts: 602
Location: Victoria BC Canada

Ted wrote:
Thank you. That was exactly the information I wanted.

I'm looking forward to having fun with this gut at the UP shoot.

Ted


How did your pinfire gun work out?
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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:31 pm  Reply with quote
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One more thing to add to this old thread about corrosion from BP loads. FYI, BP is not corrosive in and of itself. The fouling is hygroscopic (attracts moisture) because of the remaining residual salts and other chemicals left in the bore. The moisture combines with the remaining chemicals to form mild acids.

Corrosion comes when BP fouling is mixed w/ petroleum (hydrocarbon) based oils and greases. The BP residue combines with petroleum based oils and greases to quickly form a tarry corrosive compound which is difficult to remove with warm water, water and soap, or any of the recommended non-petroleum based solvents. Bore damage is a certainty if this tarry residue is left in place for even a short while.

The old timers found this out the hard way shortly before the turn of the last century when petroleum based products became common. The corrosive tar and corrosive primer residues combined to ruin the bores of many fine BP guns.

However, swabbing the fouled bore with a patch coated with T/C bore Butter, tallow mixed with olive oil or other vegetable oils, or unsalted vegetable shortening (Crisco) will temporarily stop corrosion until the barrel can be properly cleaned and greased within a reasonable period of time. These natural greases will not combine with BP fouling to form a sticky tar. The softened greasy residue is easy to remove with a patch dipped in any common type of alcohol (even whiskey). The bore can then be thoroughly swabbed out with warm water and soap to remove all the fouling, then dried and re-greased to prevent the bore from rusting.

Simply use only warm water and soap (a mild solution of warm water and Murphy's Oil Soap is highly recommended), natural oils, greases, and solvents like olive or vegetable oils and fats (unsalted Crisco), tallow, bee's wax, Murphy Mix (see NMLRA info), isopropyl rubbing alcohol, oil of wintergreen, T/C Bore Butter, etc. to clean and lube your BP guns. They will last you a lifetime w/o damage from corrosion.


Last edited by 16gaugeguy on Thu Sep 22, 2016 8:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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old colonel
PostPosted: Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:32 pm  Reply with quote
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Consider getting in touch with Daryl Hallquist on the doublegunshop.com forum.

He has considerable experience playing with different gauge pinfire guns

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