16ga.com ~ View topic - Sane loads for a very light 16 Darne double?

Member Joined: 02 Dec 2013 Posts: 13

I registered some time ago but haven't had much to contribute, mostly because my one 16 gage doesn't get much use compared to my 20s & 12s. Its not that I prefer those gages, just that they're better guns and fit me.

Now I'm looking at what looks like a great old 16 gage double. Its a Darne sliding breech and weighs just 5# 12 ox. For Darne nerds, it looks like it might be an R11 or R12 with light engraving but without the mythical "obturator disks", which are claimed to reduce felt recoil.

Does anyone on this board uses 1 oz or even 1 1/16 oz loads in a gun that light (autos don't count!)? Greener's old "96 rule" would say that 6 pounds is about minimum weight to comfortably shoot a 1 ounce load, 6# 6 oz for 1 1/16 oz. How much of a beating should I expect shaving 4 or 10 ounces off those ideal weights? I have a couple very nice 20s quite a bit lighter than this 16; they handle 7/8 oz loads just fine, so adding 16 to the stable to shoot light loads would be a little redundant.

For field use, felt recoil might be less of an issue than for targets, but how might the heavier loads affect the gun? Darnes have a reputation of being very tough dyrable guns, but I've sometimes seen them with tight splits in the stock. Since they tend to be built light, it's easy to guess those splits might have come from shooting overly heavy loads in a light gun.

I'm tempted by this gun but am really looking for something that throws a bit more lead than my light 20s without harm to me or itself. I suspect I know the anwer here but would love to hear from more experienced 16-ga shooters.

Bill

Member Joined: 26 Jun 2005 Posts: 425 Location: Big D

I also suspect you know the answer, as you have the right questions proffered.

I have two French guns that come in at 5lb 14 oz, and a 1 oz load of velocity around 1200 or so is not pleasant. It sounds like you may be more a bird hunter than a target shooter, and if so you know that the flush tends to mitigate "perceived" recoil. I will be taking some 1 oz and even some 1 1/8 loads to the Nebraska Sandhills in three weeks for those longer sharpie shots. They can flush quite wild, and act like late season pheasants. The first barrel will carry 7/8 of 7's, the second an ounce of 6's. In past experience, if I did my part the right barrel was more than enough to fold sharpies and roosters at "normal" distances.

This brings me to my reason for the 16, and one aspect you alluded to, talking about how your other guns fit you compared to your one 16: How does the 16 feel to you? This is why I use it: the 12 is too big, the 20 too small for my taste and preferences. The sharpest, most unpleasant recoil I've experienced was a 20 ga. And even though I am a big guy with outsized hands, the 16 feels better than the 12.

So if your 20's and 12's cover most of the spectrum, that lightweight Darne may be redundant. But if it speaks to you, why not pick it up? You can always send it down the road. Or find a heavier 16. I have owned 16's that weighed the upper 6's to the high 5's, and after I got used to my 3/4 oz reloads, even 1 oz in the heavier guns was noticeable and less enjoyable- especially on targets (that admittedly I don't do a lot of).

So at the end of the day, my point is that it's not just the weight of the gun (think of lightweight, short chambered 12's), but how it feels in your hands: to carry, mount, swing, and shoot.

My .02

Mike

Joined: 12 Sep 2010 Posts: 1973 Location: Maine

I regularly carry and shoot a French 16 (boxlock, not Darne) that comes in at 5 lb 8 oz.

My usual game load in it is 1 ounce of shot - 6 for pheasants, 7 1/2 for grouse - as loaded by RST.
When I shoot targets with it, it's 1 ounce of shot in a Herters' load.

The recoil is not bad at all with either. I don't run 1 1/8 ounce loads through it because (a) it's got 65mm chambers and the 1 1/8 are all for 70mm ( 2 3/4 in) guns, (b) they cost a lot more, (c) it's an older gun and I don't want to abuse it, and (d) that extra 1/8 ounce won't make much difference.
And, yes, it folds pheasants nicely. E.g., http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=178944#178944

What the OP is asking about is how perception influences reality. More precisely, how belief influences perception of reality: if you believe the recoil will be more severe with a gun a couple ounces lighter than some arbitrary formula tells you it "should" be, you will perceive the recoil to be more severe. There is no answer we can give to this question because any answer is seen solely through the OP's perception and will be "right" or "wrong" based on his subjective view of it.

Member Joined: 02 Dec 2013 Posts: 13

Thanks guys! I probably will pursue this Darne; it looks like a good one. Who knows, it might displace one of the guns that bracket it--a 5# 9 oz Darne R15 from the 70s and a 1920s-vintage 6# even St. Etienne guild 12-65. The point about expectations and self-fulfilling prophesies--perceptions molding realities--is well taken! I do shoot a few clays for practice and would probably stick to 7/8 oz for that and woodcock/snipe but may try 1 oz for rabbits, assuming I can get my spaniel steady by the end of February.

If I do get the Darne, I'll certainly post some pics!

Bill

Member Joined: 09 Sep 2014 Posts: 105 Location: Virginia

My routine may not be the same as someone else's but here it is.

I load very light shells for a FN 16 G Hammer Gun that weighs just under 6 lbs. 3/4 oz @ 1150 fps. On targets it performs fine, no need for more shot in a tight choked clay bird gun. It's strong and has good wood, no doubt would handle 7/8 oz if I hunted with it. Same load for a Parker twist barrel 16 g Hammer. 1889 wood no good reason to run it with more shot particularly on 100 shot Sporting courses. Never take it hunting.

In a 6 lb 11 oz Parker Trojan with steel barrels and 2 3/4 chambers 7/8 oz at 1150 is about right . 16 g Pumps I run mostly on 1 oz Herters factory loads and save the empties for the SxS guns.

Point is several things to consider, most important what does the target need. Game ought to be shot with a load that kills clean and you don't shoot many shells at a time. Clay birds only take a few pellets to break. Any shooting sport lightest load that delivers adequate ballistics on target is going to shoot the highest scores. Last thing old guns do better with light loads. Easy to damage one with repeated heavy recoil.

Boats

If you have to shoot no tox through the gun, which requires stouter loads as well, that's another point to consider. Super light 16's are generally the domain of lead loads in my experience.

Member Joined: 02 Dec 2013 Posts: 13

Thanks all who answered. I may have to pass on this Darne after all. In fact, in might not even be a Darne! It has the one piece stock of the earliest Darnes and no makers mark on top of the lever where it would normally appear. So far I've been unable to see any pics of the barrel flats. Looks like a good chance it's a post 1910 gun by another maker licensed to use Dane's pre-1910 patent.

Anyway, I appreciate the insights in the replies to my post. Thanks again!

Bill