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Wiley Marine
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
Location: Socorro,NM

I would like any and all information from anyone that has experience loading #7 Steel shot. I have and do reload for my 16 ... BUT.... would appreciate any help I can get on loading steel. I load Rio Hulls. My research leads me to Alliant Steel Powder. I have searched the Ballistic Products site. Any advise or help would be very helpful.
Thanks

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1960 J.C.Mugica (Noble 16)
1959 J.C.Mugica (Noble 20)
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putz463
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 3:26 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2343
Location: West MI

Welcome aboard, what are you looking to do with your steel reloads; hunt or target? Reloading steel isn't all that different than loading lead basically following proven recipes, paying attention to how the press is working, consistent process helps ensure consistent product, etc. Depending on the speed needed there are a few different powders that work but Steel is about the best I've found.

Unfortunately there are only 3-4 wads (that I'm aware of) to choose from for 16ga but they all work as intended if following the recipe and then field testing for performance.

Tip's I've learned that help when reloading steel; mix a small bit of mica powder in with the shot helps it flow into the bar and through the press. With larger shot and drops it helps to hand verify shot drops for consistency, I use MEC presses so using their steel specific bottles/kits helps, in actuality the mouths of the shot bottles are drilled out a little larger to facilitate flow + steel drop tubes. Also use the suggested plastic insert in the charge bars helps a little. After the shot drops give it a quick glance to make sure all the shot dropped and didn't bridge/hang-up in the tube.

If you click on the "Search" located under the 16ga logo in the mast head next to "FAQ" and type in steel shot and keep scrolling back through old threads you'll glean some more steel specific info compiled from past posts. + I'm pretty sure a few more members will chime in with their experience soon.

Again welcome aboard, best of luck with this...

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Wiley Marine
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 10:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
Location: Socorro,NM

Thanks for the welcome Putz

This is my first post and a hand at a form. I have reloaded lots of lead before and I use MEC Loaders. I am wanting to load #7 steel for hunting Dove and Quail. My partner(wife) and I volunteer for the USFWS so I need to shoot steel. As everyone knows buying steel shot shells for a 16 is nyon impossible. SO I thank you very much for your in put. I found it very helpful.

I found that there are few wads and I load Rio hulls so there are even less choices. What I would really like is to fine a nice low pressure load ( under 9000) using a powder other then Alliant Steel. Something like Blue Dot. I shot a Ugartechea 1960 and love it. Also for waterfowl I shoot a Lanber 12 ga. which of coarse I buy shells buy the case cheap for. The 16 is my everything else, always with me, go to.

Again thanks for your Welcome and your great help.

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"A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people."
Will Rogers



1960 J.C.Mugica (Noble 16)
1959 J.C.Mugica (Noble 20)
Lanber 12
Springfield 5000 20
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

Hi,
loading steel shot is problematic vs. loading lead precisely because the pressures are higher for similar weights. You are asking for two diametrically opposed things: reduced pressure, but NOT alliant steel powder... Asteel is as cheap as any other powder, and is at this time more readily available than other alliant powders, and it produces lower pressures than anything else in the larger gauges.

In 20ga, LilGun takes over at the largest payloads as giving the lowest pressures with high speed, but in the 16ga I think asteel will still be your best bet-- and unless you want to spend $25 a pop pressure testing, you'd best stick with what other people have tested, and that's mostly asteel.

I've got, as far as I can determine, every published 16ga steel or non-tox load in a spreadsheet. Including everything from the yahoo 16ga lists. Sorting by pressure and filtering by hull sort and by powder type, I can look at all the various options for what you're after-- Rio hull, #7 steel, lower pressure, etc.

My suggestion after looking at it all is this: look at the Lyman's 5th 16ga data. The speeds are low, 1300fps ish, which will reduce your ranges 10% for dove or so. Taking a total wag at 0.8" gel penetration for dove, which number seems to give results that match what I've seen afield with lead shot, I get 26 yards for #7 steel at 1300 fps, and 30 yards at 1500fps. Lymans has about 10 choices that look usable.

The other option I see that looks good is BPI Load of the Week from 15-08-14. It says 10,100 psi, that's the lowest I see from them and it's in a Rio hull. But it's 7/8oz steel, I think you could just use that load and reduce shot down to 370 gr or so and get a nicely lower pressure that would still make a nice hull. That's probably where I'd start. Oh, and it's LilGun, and looks to give the best payload and speed at the lowest pressures I find, so it looks like LilGun may be better for 16ga too after all. This is by far the closest answer to what you're asking for from all the loads!

Other good leads would be Fiocchi or cheddite hulls with 7/8 oz shot and bluedot around 28gr, 1325 fps and 10,000 psi. Again, I'd drop the shot charge down a bit and expect lower pressure and higher speed, and using a Rio hull NORMALLY gives reduced pressure too-- but I"m not sure how it's 16ga volume compares to Fio/ched hulls. I'd measure that with water or small shot, it's Rio is a larger volume you should be OK to sub that in particularly with lighter shot charges. VP80 wad there.

Whatever you decide to do, if you replicate a recipe but use a lighter shot charge then you're good to go. But if you just kinda come close and swap hulls etc., I'd have it pressure tested before use. All the info above is just for guidance on where to start before pressure testing.
Good luck!
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Wiley Marine
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 1:48 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
Location: Socorro,NM

Hello,
Thanks for all the info...I have researched and researched.....I have to agree with you about Asteel. The load that I have tried and patterned is: 26gr. Asteel, cds16 wad and 7/8 shot. posted 9400 psi. by BPI. This is in a Rio Hull. Also posted at 1375 fps.

It shot well. The only problem and basically the reason I'm looking for another option is that I have found Asteel is hard to find in a gun shop. Ordering it is ... well..not cheap.

I have LilGun and I will get the Lyman 5th addition for more reference.
I will try dropping to 370gr. of shot and see what I get.

I appreciate your help and the information.
thank again
Doug

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"A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people."
Will Rogers



1960 J.C.Mugica (Noble 16)
1959 J.C.Mugica (Noble 20)
Lanber 12
Springfield 5000 20
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 9:29 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

I have been(with rare exception) loading all of my steel since the mid 90's. I used to load over 1000 rds. per year back in my snow goose days. That said, a few things to note: as mentioned, the larger sizes like to jam in the drop tube. Two things help greatly to alleviate it.

Rather than mica, I treat all of my shot with silicone spray and let it dry before actually using it. This also gets rid of the problem with some of the shot remaining wedged in the bottom of the wad after firing. The slick shot may very well pass through the choke a little easier too since it shifts around in the wad a bit easier (reduced friction, especially under great contact pressure). In theory that may take some flaring stress away from the choke.

The other thing that works no small wonder when dropping the shot charge is to slightly raise the ram (up nearly to the mouth of the wad) before dropping the charge. Much of shot bridging occurs because the pellets are rammed/ packed in against each other when they stop at the bottom of the ram tube. Of course #7 will give you little to worry about here.

Crimping die adjustments get very fussy with steel since the wads usually lack a cushion section to take up slack under tension. Not enough crimp depth: crimps open up. A tiny bit too much crimp depth: hull crinkles above the brass. If you get the depth just right but the center is a little open and lets shot leak out of the tiny hole, setting the crimp starter a little deeper will generally solve it.

Follow the data and remember that steel is less fluid or absorbent of shock/pressure. Cushionless wads magnify these tendencies. The point is that pressure tends to get out of hand faster with smaller increases in powder or shot charge weight.

Oh, and don't get caught up in the hyper velocity game, it really doesn't gain you anything out at ranges where it would theoretically make a difference. Steel sheds velocity fast enough that a load with a 300 fps advantage has seen that advantage peter out to about 15 fps at 60 yards (depending on size) according to downrange chrono tests I viewed. The only benefit of going ultra fast is reduced lead but that can only serve to complicate life when you use a slower load of lead or whatever. The extra recoil doesn't really help shooter performance either.

You may already be aware that steel tends to pattern a bit tighter and give a little shorter shot strings since it stays round and flies a little straighter because of that. If the doves and quail are going to be close, an open choke is your friend.

As far as #7 itself is concerned, I have found it kills better than it really should. It is my favorite size to use with an open choke for teal when we have a number of them around. It has killed a heck of a lot of gadwalls and mallards that slipped in unexpectedly, perhaps because they didn't know enough to realize that it shouldn't! For doves it works wonderfully. For quail, well I have never tried, but they are about the same size as doves so...probably.

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Wiley Marine
PostPosted: Fri Jan 13, 2017 11:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 44
Location: Socorro,NM

Chukar..

My Noble is IC and Mod. What a wonderful thing..

Thanks for sharing your information with me. I don't think I would have thought about silicon spray. I can see where that would be a great benefit. I have experienced the "Crimp Demon" and I have to admit I never thought about lowering the crimp starter. I agree with you about the "Speed Train"....personally I see no advantage in it. Reduced lead...well I'm use to shooting style so I'll stick with it. And YES #7 for Teal .. what a deal.

I'll be jump shooting Mallards in the morning on a little creek I know. #4 Imp.Cyl/Mod. Should be a good Morning.

Thanks again.

_________________
"A man only learns in two ways, one by reading, and the other by association with smarter people."
Will Rogers



1960 J.C.Mugica (Noble 16)
1959 J.C.Mugica (Noble 20)
Lanber 12
Springfield 5000 20
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