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byrdog
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 2:38 pm  Reply with quote
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IN THE DAYS OF YESTER YEAR. I shot lead 4's and killed mallards black ducks and geese out to 50 yds all the time. I used 4's for pheasants as they were the same size as the ducks. Pellets retain kinetic energy longer if the mass is greater. Gauge is only important if you are shootin Magnums, dont shoot magnums.

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Murdock
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:39 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2016
Posts: 36
Location: Down East Maine

My brother, who lives in the northern end of the Big Horn Valley, has until this year taken pheasants reliably with a 2-3/4 inch 12 gauge. This year he has shifted to a non-magnum 20 gauge and continues to take birds with confidence. I just wish we could find birds when I'm there with him. Sigh.

I chose not to take my 16 gauge LC on the plane this year, and used one of my brother's guns instead, but would have been very comfortable wit my 16 had I brought it. You will be fine with your 16.

I took my brother-in-law to WY with me several years ago to hunt. He had almost never been away from Maine. When I asked him what he told his buddies about the trip when he got home he said "You can watch your dog run away for two days."

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hiplainsdrifter
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Jan 2017
Posts: 50

@Murdock- Love it. I am surprised to see several other Wyoming uplanders on this site, and I have only been browsing it a few days. I guess we aren't as rare a breed as I thought. Thanks for the feedback. I was really eyeing the Fabarm Elos B for a while, a beautiful and well built gun, but I couldn't get over the fact that the 12 is the same weight as my old battle axe pump. The 16 just has so much character. If they made the Elos in a 16, my money would already be spent.
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double vision
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 7:30 pm  Reply with quote
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To the original poster a 16 gauge is more than enough at 30 yards and much beyond. I've made some of my very longest shots on pheasants with a 16 gauge. A 16 is plenty at all reasonable ranges. That said, when I know the ranges are gong to be long I grab my Beretta 686 12 gauge that I have slimmed down to near 16 gauge proportions (and added a solid rib!). Part of it is how it patterns 1 1/4 oz loads, and part is the heavier gun shoots more precisely and consistently for me at longer ranges. It's all personal choice and there are many ways to skin a cat.
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fred lauer
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 8:39 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 02 Feb 2006
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Location: western pa

Checking some notes from the last 10 years or so I found 20 ga. Kassnar # 4shot- 3", full choke, 40 yds. ; 16 gauge Fox Sterlingworth 1 1/8 oz. #5, full choke, 51 yards ; 12 ga. Remington Versa Max #6 copper 1 1/8 oz. IM choke tube, 71 yards ( measured because I didn't believe it was that far). Honestly, I seldom bother shooting at pheasants over 35 yards, my dogs get enough opportunities that there is no need. Those long shots were all taken at the only flush of the day after walking for miles. As I get older, I quit a little sooner and avoid such silly shots.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:08 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Well hi there. I too live in Wyoming and almost hunt daily. If it has feathers I chase it. I use everything from .410 to 10 ga. with gobs of time spent with them all. That said I will relay what I have learned.

30 yards is a chip shot with a 20 ga. Now if by 30 yards you mean the birds flush at 30 and the shot is 45-55 yards depending on wind, etc. then that is different. With a balanced, well patterning load run through a fairly tight choke the 16 ga. is a solid performer at 50 yards. I do it often with huns, chukars, and when I am where they live, sharp tails.

It will knock birds down at 55 often, but a higher percentage of them will require the dog to run them down. 50-60 yards is really 12 ga. territory ( or 10 ga.) and once again I am referring to an ideal load and choke combo that has been verified to perform at said range via time spent at the pattern board.

Now realize that I just described the long range 16 ga. using the best 1 or 1 1/8 oz. loads I can make myself. Does the job very well, but like what you have discovered with your 12, things can get messy up close. Using a more open choked gun solves that but sacrifices distance. A solution? Double barreled gun with an open choke and a full choke, or use a more open patterning load for the first shot. Chilled shot and high velocity tends to open things up nicely.

In the end, I have found that using the tight bored 16 is about ideal even if a bit more demanding up close or I do have to wait slightly to let the bird get a touch further out (I can miss either way). Most of the time on a close flushing covey, I just shoot the furthest bird first. Seems to work.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Jan 11, 2017 9:25 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

Something others touched on is important. What do you consider "long range". What I consider long may stir debate with some but I have a couple of guns that perform ridiculously well at ranges most people won't deal with. They are not 16's.

Just because a couple of my guns with the right loads can deliver the goods at very long distances does not mean that I always can. When I am on my "A" game, I sure enjoy doing it. When not, I go back to a 16 and watch long birds leave unscathed and then follow where they went or go look for others. Most of the time my big guns stay at home or in the case.

Know thy limits and time spent afield will be more enjoyable.

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UncleDanFan
PostPosted: Thu Jan 12, 2017 7:17 pm  Reply with quote
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I've become very fond of my 6lb ic/xf choked Husky 16 for longer shots. If you can't kill it with 1 1/8oz 5's out of an xf choked 16, then you likely wouldn't be able to do it with a 12 either. Wink

That said, I do have a couple 12's, both hammer guns, but one is a ic/ic skeet gun, for ease of ammo purchase, and the other is a xf/xf 2 3/4" heavy duck/turkey gun which I don't use much, but is so beautiful that I don't dare let it go. And I just may decide to head east after some long range giant canada's this fall, just because I now have the gun to do it with.

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16gaugeguy
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 12:46 pm  Reply with quote
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hiplainsdrifter wrote:
I realize that this forum will be biased but I am interested in opinions on using a 16 for longer range shots. I live in Wyoming and 30 yard shots on sharptails and wild roosters are the norm. I am willing to lug a 12 around if it means more clean kills, but if the 16 will cut the mustard I would rather have less weight.


Like others have already posted, the 12 holds an advantage for shooting heavy loads w/ #4 shot and bigger. The standard long range pheasant load out west seems to be the baby magnum 12 ga 1-1/2 ounce load of #4 shot. If the pattern is put right on the bird, the #4 pellets will cleanly kill out past 50 yards. But doing so is easier said than done. It takes a lot of practice to hit birds well out past 40 yards. That means shooting lots of 27 yard H-cap and Annie Oakleys at a trap range. Most folks don't get enough of this type of shooting. Those folks who do seem to hit pheasant very well out past 40 yards. Lots of experience is a big plus.

The heaviest normal 16 ga load is 1-1/4 ounces. A 1-1/4 ounce load of #5 shot can be devastating out at 40 yards when put right on the bird. It can easily shred the hell out of a pheasant inside 35 yards if tight chokes are used. A fast 1-1/8 ounce load of #5 shot is probably a wiser choice here. Also, almost any 16 gauge will pattern heavier loads of #5 shot very well.

A 1-1/4 ounce load of #4 shot will cleanly drop birds out as far as 50 yards out of an improved modified choke, and the pattern hits dead on the bird. Full chokes of .630 or tighter tend to open a pattern of #4 shot to some degree. I suspect the tightly packed pellets in 16 ga. shot columns of #4 shot have some trouble getting through full chokes w/o becoming a bit too deformed, but that is a guess. All I know from experience is that 16 ga improved modified or tighter modified chokes pattern heavy loads of #4 shot better.

Some 16 gauge guns handle 1-1/4 ounces of #4 shot okay, but it depends on the bore diameter. The standard US 16 ga. bore diameter is supposedly .662"-.663", but some 16 gauge guns have bores as large as .670" in diameter. Those with diameters under .665 tend not to pattern #4 shot very well, so bigger is better here. Of course, shotguns are laws unto themselves, so there are exceptions. The only way to find out for sure is to pattern the load and see what a certain gun will do for you. Hope my input helps. Good luck.
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 11:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
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very interesting post 16gaugeguy, thx.
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dannypratt
PostPosted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 9:46 am  Reply with quote
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16gg,
Good point on the practice at the 27yd line. And to prove your point, I would suggest that anyone who has regularly shot from the 16yd line, to step back to the 18 yd line. It's amazing the difference of lead time on the target, as well as pattern density (based on how the clay appears to break at least).
I had never thought of doing what you recommend but it makes perfect sense. It never occurred to me to Handicap for bird season tune-up.
It's funny what you don't realize can help in multiple applications until someone else mentions it.
Good point!

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