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Joined: 05 Jan 2006 Posts: 18

This afternoon while shooting skeet with a stevens 311 in 16ga I had the brass pop off the hull during extraction. Both were with 67mm blue fiocci hulls and both were in the same barrel. Has anyone had any similer problems with this shell before?

Funny you should mention it... I just had a very bad experience yesterday with Fiocchi 70MM blue hulls, loaded with a standard Ballistics Products recipe as follows:

ID M1605019 New factory primed case, (fio-616) 26.0gr. longshot, MultiMetal 16 wad, (slit 4x) 2 felt 1/4" 20 ga in bottom of shotcup, a tyvek disc over felt, 1 oz bismuth 2's ( weighed, not by volume) Bismuth shot buffer 12 grains, overshot card, and fold crimped. This is listed at 1310 FPS and 10,800 psi by Ballistics Products.

I killed seven geese with these shells Friday morning. The empty shells were so tight they would not eject, and had to be pried out of my Merkel O/U. During the excitement, i didn't think it was more than a dirty chamber. I When I got home, I was going to give the chamber of my gun a thorough cleaning and inspection to discover the cause of the sticky extraction. I didn't see anything amiss, so looked at the fired shells and got a big surprise. The brass was extruded into the extractor space so that a very noticeable bump was raised just over the rim and about 1/5 of the way around the shell, corresponding to the cut out of the extractor. Looked like these loads generate very high pressure! I thought perhaps I was sloppy measuring or that gremlins had gotten into my reloading set up, so I carefully disassembled one of the loaded rounds, and weighed everything. It all checked out! Now I'm scared to use shells showing such obvious signs of high pressure, or is it weak case heads? I know my Merkel is a strong gun, it's other set of barrels is 7x57R, which operates at 45,000 PSI. But I won't be shooting any more Fiocchi shells until I find out what's going on! Other handloads and factory loads show no such problems in this gun.
Now I read about the problems above wtih Fiocchi blue hulls....
Your theories anyone?

Member Joined: 25 Jul 2006 Posts: 781

I threw away a bushel baskets of Fiocci hulls (mostly 67mm) because of problems with them.

I have had a number of hull/tube separations.

I have also had lots of issues with brass expanding so it would not extract in my Sweet Sixteen. I have also had a number of bases that tended to bulge in my Parker VHE 16.

None of these issues have occurred with the same loads in any other hull.

Jeff

Member Joined: 01 Feb 2006 Posts: 450 Location: Indiana

I have had the same problem with the same hulls. After reloading it did not seem to matter what gun I chambered them in they were hard closing the breech. After firing I had the same ring buldge near the rim. Usuing the 16 supersizer works better than the standard ring sizer on the mec.
I do not have this problem with other hulls.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3438 Location: Illinois

This hull does not win any awards for reloadability Evil or Very Mad

I am using blue Fiocchi hulls gleaned for a couple of flats of factory loads from about 5 years ago. So far, my 1-1/8 ounce express and 1-1/4 ounce mag loads are doing fine. I've yet to have any problems with them. However, I reload them only once and chuck them for these two loads.

This problem might be a recent developement. I would strongly advise contacting Fiocchi America. I've found them to be very good about customer concerns. About 8 years ago, I bought a flat of #9 shot 28 ga. Fiocchi 3/4 ounce sport loads. I could not break targets with them. It was the shot. It was very small, more like #11, and was literally bouncing off the targets. I sent the remainder of the case back to Fiocchi and they sent me two cases of the hi-speed # 7-1/2 hunting loads as a replacement and as compensation for my shipping costs and trouble.

I'm still hunting with those 7-1/2 loads. they are very effective on grouse anytime and stocked pheasant in the early weeks, and for preserve birds too. I'd have used them all up by now except now my 16 ga guns keep leaping into my hands from the gun rack on my way out the door to hunt. The 28 gauge guns seem to be a bit slower to the call. Wink

Ballistic Products lists this hull as one of the best made, well lets say fiocchi in general and not pertaining to the 67mm length 16's. I have about 300 new hulls of this brand and length and have had no troubles with them as of yet. They loaded well adn shoot even better. Iv'e also loaded the kent hulls(cheddites) and they are very good ones also. In regards to handloading don't just take test listed loads as safe in all firearms. In one of my 16 SXS I have to drop 1 full grain below listed loads to get away from pessure signs, what gives here i'm not sure since the gun was checked over after this arose andthe gunsmith assured me the chamber dimension were fine and also lengthened the forcing cones. Good Luck Exclamation

Has anyone else used the above load recipe from Ballistic Products? They also list an almost identical load for "Multi" hulls with a Win 209 primer. The two are load ID# M1605019 and M1605037 in the 16Ga manual, 5th Ed. Their charts show identical pressure and velocity. I don't have access to a pressure testing facility or I would send some shells off to test myself. I'm too nervous to just load some more up and fire 'em to see if they have similar problems.

Joined: 01 Oct 2006 Posts: 171 Location: western PA

its interesting that i read this post today. I was looking at one of my spent 16 gauge blue fiocci shells today and saw that the one side of the brass was bulged out enough to make the lip about half the size of the other side. also the lip was thicker there, like it was pushed open. These hulls were purchased in august of this year. brand new hulls neve before loaded. when compared to a hull that had not been fired there is a definent difference. i think that i will try getting some bp multi hulls and give it a try, with the same load. Ben

I have that problem with 12 gauge cases .The Rottweil Game 27 1oz paper case.They come apart at the brass.not all the time ,maybe 1 in 10 but when you use them you always have to look at your chambers.I still have a couple of thousand to get through.

The other day I felt like Gene Hill giving his annual report.My Managing Director had me backed up against the wall wanting to know why I wanted ten and a half thousand shotgun shells in various gauges A loose figure I gave her when she entered the inner sanctum one day last week.A careful stocktake revealed eleven and a half thousand.not counting the 1000 20ga 2 1/2" I ordered today
Gee Wizz you never know when you might want a couple of rounds of skeet or roll a rabbit over or the infedels might attack.

good shooting
sbs470