16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Guns  ~  New or used?
WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 11, 2018 8:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1113
Location: Hudson,Wy

The new guns, well they just seem like new guns, they lack the character and feel of the classics. Sure there are advantages to a new gun, all of which have been mentioned and I have swallowed that pill before.

In recent years I bought a couple of new guns, a 12 ga. & .410 of the same model . I bought the 12 as a versatile lightweight gun with advantage of screw in chokes. I fit the stock to my build and converted it to english grip. It is a very light gun. By all "reason" it should be ideal. However, the feel just isn't there. It's mainly a gun I loan out now. The .410 and I get along better, but it is mostly for those days when I feel like shooting ducks at 15 yards, or blue grouse.

Not all old guns feel great either, but the ones that do, wow! There is more to it than that though. When I carry a Fox or Lefever, I remember when we still built objects of beauty. I also think of the era the guns were used in. An era when bird hunting wasn't complicated; when you just needed a gun and a dog. Places to hunt were easy to come by and habitat was still plentiful. It was a day my Dad spoke of. Part of carrying an old gun is turning your back on the modern way of thinking and focusing on the true essence of a hunt.

New or old? Well you know what I like, but I'm the one not spending your money. The crucial factors are: why do you want another gun, what do you want it to say about the man who carries it (even if you are your only audience), how will it be used, and does it make you smile? I think once you have answered these questions, your choice will be easy.

_________________
Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2018 9:55 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 2954
Location: NCWa

A gunsmith friend of mine told me about his son, who was involved in 1/4 mile car racing. He said that at one point he could reduce the time to the finish line at the rate of $1,000 per second- I forget if he was still talking about cars or women. Wink
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Hammer bill
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 11:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 244

Regardless of old or new. I used lead on everything. Even on wildfowl. Where I hunt i don't worry about someone else. Private but know if someone puts a footprint on the property.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Beagleman
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 7:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 189
Location: Clemson

Mark, apparently from the standpoint of versatility/ ammo I have not thought that a new 16ga was worth the expense since I have not bought a new gun ever. I came close with the new Browning Swt 16 until I got my hands on one. Compared to my old swt 16's.....well there was no comparison. I guess I will have to muddle through rabbit and quail hunting with my old guns.
My wife asked me what was she supposed to do with all these old guns when I die. My suggestion was : Funeral @ 1:00 p.m., Gun auction @ 2:00 p.m.

_________________
There is no substitute for winning!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Upland Carpenter
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2018 8:16 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 24 Jan 2007
Posts: 368
Location: SC PA

Beagleman wrote:
Mark, apparently from the standpoint of versatility/ ammo I have not thought that a new 16ga was worth the expense since I have not bought a new gun ever. I came close with the new Browning Swt 16 until I got my hands on one. Compared to my old swt 16's.....well there was no comparison. I guess I will have to muddle through rabbit and quail hunting with my old guns.
My wife asked me what was she supposed to do with all these old guns when I die. My suggestion was : Funeral @ 1:00 p.m., Gun auction @ 2:00 p.m.


Nice.

You should have asked her why she thinks you'll go first? Shocked

_________________
"A man who doesn't spend time with his family can never be a real man" - Vito Corleone

''Common Sense isn't common" -Lefty Kreh
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Wed Feb 14, 2018 4:42 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 2954
Location: NCWa

I retrieved the mail today and noticed it included a brochure from a china/crystal supplier, but gave the bundle to my wife. Later, after I placed an internet order for some ammunition, I mentioned the charge that would be appearing in the next bill. She was standing next to the China hutch, holding the brochure. She had found the items that were the make/model of what we have and was floored by the price. Her words were "Do you know how much is in this cabinet?" I didn't respond, but guessed it was about the same as is in the gun safe. there was no complaint about the ammo purchase- but then, there never is. Smile
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
bearman49709
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 8:58 am  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 09 Aug 2009
Posts: 54
Location: N.E. Michigan

Beagleman wrote:
Mark, apparently from the standpoint of versatility/ ammo I have not thought that a new 16ga was worth the expense since I have not bought a new gun ever. I came close with the new Browning Swt 16 until I got my hands on one. Compared to my old swt 16's.....well there was no comparison. I guess I will have to muddle through rabbit and quail hunting with my old guns.
My wife asked me what was she supposed to do with all these old guns when I die. My suggestion was : Funeral @ 1:00 p.m., Gun auction @ 2:00 p.m.


I always wanted a old Sweet16, but when I got to where I could afford one the prices jumped out of this world. One that is 80% or better going for $1000.00 to over $2000.00.
So last July I bought the new one for $1400.0 with $100.00 rebate.
Maybe one day I'll find a nice old one I can afford, until then I can enjoy the new one.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Beagleman
PostPosted: Fri Feb 16, 2018 7:50 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Oct 2015
Posts: 189
Location: Clemson

Bearman, I'm not ruling out the new swt 16 completely. I love Browning guns . I appreciate the weight since I may carry a gun rabbit hunting 8-10 hours. IF they made one with a less bulky round knob grip, well.....i would have to nudge some guns around in the safe to make room! Until then, it's old guns for me.
I hope you find a nice old Sweet 16 you can afford.

_________________
There is no substitute for winning!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Brewster11
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 2:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 551
Location: Western WA

New or used? Several 16s in the safe ranging from magnificent new doubles to ancient repeaters, but the undisputed king is a 1919 M12 2 1/2" 16 ga. It illustrates why the 16 ga enjoyed such popularity and why repeaters destroyed the American double gun industry, light (6 lb 2 oz) and perfectly balanced, less barrel heavy than any double. Oh yes, and $225 from a gun store no less, not some unsuspecting poor widow.

Of course I am by nature a habitual bottom feeder so it feels all that much better to find a hidden gem for next to nothing. But some might argue that's not necessarily a laudable trait either.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WyoChukar
PostPosted: Wed Feb 21, 2018 3:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1113
Location: Hudson,Wy

"Less barrel heavy than any double"? That's a mighty bold statement. I have a Lefever DS that would prove you wrong. Many old doubles fall in this category. New doubles are a different animal entirely, most have thicker tubes (especially at the muzzle) to accommodate screw in chokes and to "lawyer proof" things.

Plenty of M12's are no doubt nice, but balance and weight distribution can be accomplished on many platforms in a variety of ways.

At any rate, another vote for the old guns.

_________________
Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 1:02 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 551
Location: Western WA

Quote:
I have a Lefever DS that would prove you wrong.

What could be better than a couple hundred years of 16 gauges competing for ultimate shotgun supremacy?

If there were a challenger to the little 2 1/2" 16 ga M12 it would likely be a DS. But the plain M12 barrel is only 25 3/4" and the complete barrel/magazine assembly with riot gun forend wood weighs 2 lbs 7 oz. So it is a very quick pointer, if not the quickest, because one short light barrel with a 16 in. magazine tube ought to feel less barrel heavy than two longer barrels.

The entire gun weighs 6 lbs even, not 6 lb 2 oz as stated earlier. It's like carrying a parasol.

The barrel may have been shortened a bit, not sure what the factory barrel length was way back then. Some conscientious gunsmith hammered out the original choke stamp and put a new stamp "MOD" directly below it. Even so it is more Imp Mod than today's Mod.

It carries and mounts great, and with the short action cycle it shucks emptys quickly, maybe too quickly because I had a couple slam fires in the field this season.

All that notwithstanding, I will definitely give the new Swt16 a very hard look, especially if it is a true sub-6 lb gun as advertised. A field gun can't be light enough for me, provided it points well.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 2:03 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1113
Location: Hudson,Wy

That's for sure. I don't mind a little extra recoil from a light gun if I know it's going on some mighty lengthy walks with me.

Brewster, you bring up a good point about choke. The is one more difference between the new guns and the old. Modern ammo designs, if you want to call 60+ year old improvements modern, has slowly but surely resulted in a shift in choke designations. What used to be considered mod is now considered as full by many makers.

I think I would look into the sear engagement angle on that M12, slam fires are not a cool "feature".

_________________
Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Brewster11
PostPosted: Thu Feb 22, 2018 5:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 551
Location: Western WA

Quote:
I think I would look into the sear engagement angle on that M12, slam fires are not a cool "feature".


Excellent suggestion, thanks. M12s will fire upon closing the bolt if the trigger is held down, but in these two cases I certainly wasn't consciously pulling the trigger when it fired while pumping the slide. However I was wearing a glove. So it needs to be checked out. One of the new design features of the 870 was to require the trigger to be cycled so it couldn't slam fire like the M12.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Griffon
PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2018 12:43 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 19 Apr 2014
Posts: 334
Location: maine

Personal choice old or new. I like the looks of the old guns but they never seem to fit without a bunch of alterations for me. I'm the opposite of WyoChukar I'd rather carry a 6 3/4lb gun all day (which I do) than take the recoil bite of a light gun. So I'll stick with my RBL 16 which functions flawlessly, fits well, has seen more shells through it in a year than most of the old guns saw in their lifetime, and I don't have to ask where can I find a gunsmith to fix "Old Thunder" ? Joe Perch in West Honkmadonkus can fix her but he's 6 months to a year out on repairs. Nah. Like I said personal choice.

_________________
If it weren't for women cats would be extinct.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2018 1:52 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1113
Location: Hudson,Wy

i don't know that I would consider 6 3/4 lbs all that heavy. That's about what my Fox weighs. Not sure how many shells the RBL digests, but the Fox has handled a few thousand in the past three years with no need of repair.

But you have a good point about fixing old guns. Most really are not that hard to find parts for if you look, not the mainstream guns. Guns like say the Syracuse Lefevers, are an issue at times though since certain parts don't swap readily.

Some of the "new" guns, a scant few, actually do have the feel of the old guns. Of course the price tag is a bit painful.

_________________
Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 3 of 4
Goto page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Guns

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09