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TJC
PostPosted: Wed Dec 20, 2006 12:20 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 20 Mar 2005
Posts: 1522
Location: NH

[quote="16gaugeguy"]TJC, what surprises me is the fact that a supposedly high end operation could make such a fundamental error in ammo selection for its clients. someone did not do his homework.
quote]

I agree 100%.

I'll use the 10z Remington Gameloads in 6's backed by Fiocchi GP the next time I go.

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kb
PostPosted: Thu Dec 21, 2006 10:37 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Posts: 62

I have enjoyed reading many of the comments following my post. Russ (RWG) pointed out that the way we measure velocity here in the United States and the way they do in Great Britain is different. He is correct. However, I think (and I'm reaching back in my memory now) the differential is about 30 fps (again I could be foggy on this exact number).
So a British load at 1300 fps is not going to come down to 1200 fps American and perhaps not even 1250 fps. So, while there is a reduction involved, it is not a large leap back -- but enough that one would notice while shooting.

One of the reasons I made my post was to strike a blow for the idea that American hunters should consider lighter loads. The U.S. ammo manufacturers have gone on a (profitable) high velocity, heavy load binge. It is not uncommon to see Federal boast that it has a 12ga pheasant load that hits 1500 fps (and their competitors are right behind with 1400+ fps). Whew! Whoa! Like writer Michael McIntosh, I don't think that we need that much velocity and all the extra powder and lead (1 1/4 oz +) to kill a pheasant. I personally think the proponents of high velocity loads ("speed kills") have over stated their case. There are writers on both sides of the Atlantic who agree with this point. Like I mentioned in my earlier post, increased velocity also increases recoil. And heavy recoil is one of the chief causes of poor upland shooting. We are just now beginning to understand the accumulated negative effects of recoil on the human body and how it adversely affects shooters at middle age and beyond. (It is especially true for fixed breech shooters -- sxs and o/u -- as well as the gas operated automatic shooters.)

One of America's most naturally gifted shots was Bob Brister. He wrote a fine book on shotguns and shooting which is still around if you look. He won many tournaments and had a room full of trophies. Bob passed away about two years ago but in his last years of shooting, even he had developed a flinch. (He was able to compensate for this I believe with his fine eye/hand coordination that was so much better than most of us have. That plus experience too...) That is why I think we need to rethink our approach on recoil and to move away from excessively heavy loads. To me the really best heavy load in a gas operated semi-auto (NOT for sxs or o/u) for pheasants would be 3 1/4 dr and 1 1/4 oz. For reasons that shotgun ballistic experts don't completely understand, this load patterns very well in practically every 12ga bbl. Given the bore size of a 12, this load is well balanced which is why it patterns so well. For us double shooters, 3dr eq is the max in my view (and 2 3/4 dr is probably better) with (most of the time) 1 oz of shot (especially for the great 16ga). (The English like 1 1/16 oz -- they split the difference between 1 and 1 1/8 although the few extra pellets might be more of a psychological benefit to the shooter.)

Getting back to the RST vs Gamebore loads. I lead towards the RST line because their velocity/recoil is sensible and they burn powder efficiently which is why your barrels don't look like seaweed after a day at the preserve or the range. Gamebore loads will do the job -- but we have a choice don't we? One post pointed out that Gamebore and other British shotgun ammo manufacturers make some of their loads with an eye to the owners with older fixed choke guns made between the wars or right after with 2 1/2" chambers. That is correct and a purchaser needs to recall that fact to make sure he is getting the right load for his more modern piece.
[Also, the older classic British (and American) game guns had their chokes and constrictions designed when shotguns shells were paper hulled and fiber wadded. When plastic wads/hulls came on the scene in the early 1960s this tightened up patterns by 10% or so. Thus, an older IC would throw close to a MODIFIED patern with the "new" ammo. And 10% is about what differentiates one choke from another...]

Well, I am going to stop here for now before I wade into other topics and aspects.

Hope everyone has a happy holiday!

Regards,
keith
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