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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 8:34 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

There's nothing cruel about breaking unacceptable habits, it's a responsibility to those around you. A barking or otherwise obnoxious dog is welcome nowhere. A well behaved dog is welcome everywhere and joy to all.

As far as training in general is concerned, the lessons should be fun for the dog in some way. If the dog enjoys training time, he will participate and learn with enthusiasm (whether he knows he is learning or not). The moment the pup loses interest, stop. If you don't the pup will soon resent training sessions and may become very difficult to work with. Always leave them wanting more and they will be eager to continue.

Like already mentioned, some dogs are pretty "soft" and do not respond well to a forceful approach at all. My previous dog was this way, but she was an A+ student if you were gentle and never needed the heavy handed approach. A dog that is "soft", or shy if you will, and hard headed at the same time can present challenges. Once again, canine psychology must be applied: make the training chores into games the dog enjoys. It's not as hard as it sounds. Merely taking away a training dummy or wing, etc. when the dog stops cooperating (but is still interested)can do the trick. Consistency is key though.

The important thing right now is recognizing your own pup's personality before you proceed. Knowing how he reacts to input will allow you to adjust any game plan. Doing your own training is very rewarding and there will be no gaps to bridge between trainer and master. Enjoy your time with the pup and be patient, there is no such thing as a set schedule of progress.

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goathoof
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:05 am  Reply with quote
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Interesting research: https://healthypets.mercola.com/sites/healthypets/archive/2018/03/26/dog-training-body-gestures.aspx?utm_source=petsnl&utm_medium=email&utm_content=art1&utm_campaign=20180326Z1&et_cid=DM195463&et_rid=256088726
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16'er
PostPosted: Mon Mar 26, 2018 10:56 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Oct 2006
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Location: Tappahannock, Virginia

I have a few small pieces of "wisdom",

Take you Pup as many places as you can and have them meet as many people as possible.

Let pups be pups. Explore, have fun, etc. Let him chase some pen birds as soon as possible.

Be very careful with Gunfire. You really can't go too slow. Once a dog is spooked, it's a major time commitment to get them back. The cap guns that use the shotgun primers are too loud to start with, esp anywhere near the dog.. (although loading a primer in a shell and firing it away from the dog in a break gun works quite well I find.) Either way have someone cap for you while your working the dog.

See if there is a local NAVHDA chapter that has training days.

I'd work on "Come", "Heel", and "Whoa" in that order. Those are the three commands you need top safely take your Dog to the field.

Like above, keep it fun. Progress is great to see, but it comes in leaps, not a steady stream (at least for me). I'm working through force fetch with my 15 mo Girl right now. I'm a bit behind where I should be, but have had a good week or so recently!
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simcgunner
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 8:30 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2011
Posts: 70
Location: Virginia

I agree with 16er. Find NAVHDA chapter. There will be many experienced dog owners and trainers to help you train the dog to do what it was bred to do and you will have a happy well trained hunting partner for life. I was at a field test near Tappahannock last week and a friend who had a good dog trained by a very expensive professional trainer . Would not work for the owner. A shame.
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Chicago
PostPosted: Wed Mar 28, 2018 7:39 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: Northern Illinois

tom kilgore wrote:
I have decided to make the commitment to train the little guy myself. I will be making the trip to pick him up this week. I appreciate the tips provided by Bobsthedog. I will utilize them to the best of my ability. I really miss that little guy. Thanks to all, Tom


I am not sure what type of training you were looking for at 3 1/2 months but outside of it’s name, here, no, and basic lead training that is pretty young. I also start a pup on quartering at a young age and if they are interested I hide a wing out in the filed on a fly rod and see if they have interest. Some do and some don’t and if they don’t it isn’t something to worry about.

At 9 to 15 months I start field commands and field training:
I like to use an e-collar when I field train a dog and, if introduced correctly, it doesn’t take much juice for most dogs, just a tickle. Sometimes I take them in and other times I just work with the owner at the training grounds. The latter doesn’t work nearly as well because I am mostly training my friends on how to train their dogs. The training lacks consistency, but that’s ok if it works for them.

The obedience end is just the commands the dog will hear in the field. So I train them for: Here, turn, Whoa and Heel. I also train them for quartering. I leave Sit and Stay until the former are mastered by the dog and it usually comes after I have finished the dog and I am doing follow up work. That is when I usually add having the dog respond to tone for Here and Turn.

Depending on the pup the field obedience generally takes 4 to 6 weeks. The field training to be steady to wing and shot and move on drop is another 8 to 12 weeks. All pups are different and you just have to work with what they give you.

In my opinion if you have not trained a number of dogs a pro is always going to produce a better product. That statement is relative to the owner and some folks are simply more demanding of their dogs behavior than others.

At pick up the trainer should spend at least a 1/2 day working with you to be sure you understand the commands and he should observe you executing all the commands. With an e-collar the timing of making a correction and following with the command is critical. Too much lag and the dog doesn’t make the connection for turning off the juice.

I also give the owner homework. For four days only work the dog on the lead and make sure they respond to all commands 100%, the next four or five days have the dog drag the lead and make sure they are 100% on all commands. Then they can take the dog off the lead for another four or five days. Two sessions each day for five minutes a session. If all goes well then they can take the dog in the field.

Good Luck with your pup and training them yourself is always very rewarding. But, some folks just are not cut out to train a dog. That is why the Pros can make a living at it.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 7:45 am  Reply with quote
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When collar training my dogs, I tend to use the tone feature a lot more than the stimulation. The collar is only useful in reinforcing known commands, especially with the two big renegades I run. The tone can mean one of two things for my dogs. First if a command such as "here" is given and the dog ignores the command, rather than repeating the command, a tone on the collar tells the dog to get over here now, or you won't like what comes next. Second, when the dog is hunting in the field the tone means for the dog to do something else such as if going right, reverse and go left, if going out, come back towards me. I use the tone a lot during field trials to keep my dogs hunting inbound. I've run my dogs with other handlers in field trials where the handler is blowing his whistle and yelling continuously and it actually causes my dogs to stop and try to figure out what all the ruckus is about. Conversely, the other dogs are used to it and basically ignore the handler. Most bird hunts using the tone, I can make it through the hunt only saying "fetch" and "give" to my dogs. I think that the quieter I can be afield, the better my dogs hunt.

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Chicago
PostPosted: Thu Mar 29, 2018 8:25 pm  Reply with quote
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Riflemeister wrote:
When collar training my dogs, I tend to use the tone feature a lot more than the stimulation. The collar is only useful in reinforcing known commands, especially with the two big renegades I run. The tone can mean one of two things for my dogs. First if a command such as "here" is given and the dog ignores the command, rather than repeating the command, a tone on the collar tells the dog to get over here now, or you won't like what comes next. Second, when the dog is hunting in the field the tone means for the dog to do something else such as if going right, reverse and go left, if going out, come back towards me. I use the tone a lot during field trials to keep my dogs hunting inbound. I've run my dogs with other handlers in field trials where the handler is blowing his whistle and yelling continuously and it actually causes my dogs to stop and try to figure out what all the ruckus is about. Conversely, the other dogs are used to it and basically ignore the handler. Most bird hunts using the tone, I can make it through the hunt only saying "fetch" and "give" to my dogs. I think that the quieter I can be afield, the better my dogs hunt.


Same thing here, I use tone most of the time when hunting, but I still mix in whistle and verbal so they don’t forget. If I have two dogs down then the tone is really handy because if I want dog A to do something and not dog B I can just tone dog A. Like you I rarely correct a dog when hunting unless the behavior demands it. I also don’t like making a correction when I can’t see what is going on with the dog and in the grouse woods until late season that is most of the time.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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pbr streetgang
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 10:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Dec 2006
Posts: 90
Location: At the edge of a Florida marsh

“Field dogs don’t sit”
I was scolded at once by a trainer as I dropped off little pup for field training.
Why?
As I was later informed, the moment you put pressure on a pup and they get nervous they will revert to the first thing they were taught.....SIT! A dog sitting down in a field trial is big no-no.
On training and commands, do it yourself. Use a trainer for more advanced work, pointing, retrieving and such if your not experienced. Basic commands, you should do yourself.

I don’t like “Whoa” either.
“Halt” is easier and is more demanding command especially yelling into the wind.
And the same with “come”. It sounds like you’re asking.
“Here” is mucho better.
I’ve boiled it down to three commands, Halt, Here, and Easy. No whistles, no e collars, and hand signals. I very rarely ever have to use No and I never tell my dog to sit. Dogs naturally either stand or lay down but hardly ever “sit” on their own. My nickels worth.

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Apr 08, 2018 9:04 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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Location: Hudson,Wy

I break your "sit" rule...with a purpose. Of course my methods and dog are scarcely in line with conventional thinking anyway. My dog flushes birds and normally that is what I want. When I don't, he gets the "sit" command at which point he waits for me, I move up, release him, and he flushes the birds. It's a system that splits the flusher vs. pointer debate right down the middle. It's a great tactic with birds that run hard and don't want to hold. It's fun too, especially when a hunting buddy sees it for the first time. You have to be able to read your dog real well and know just how close he or she is to putting birds in the air for this to pan out consistently. Getting to know your dog that well is always a joy.

I imagine my dog and my methods would likely not be received openly by the field trial circuit but like I said, it's a pretty satisfying way to hunt wild birds.

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Riflemeister
PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2018 7:03 am  Reply with quote
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WyoChukar wrote:
I break your "sit" rule...with a purpose. Of course my methods and dog are scarcely in line with conventional thinking anyway. My dog flushes birds and normally that is what I want. When I don't, he gets the "sit" command at which point he waits for me, I move up, release him, and he flushes the birds. It's a system that splits the flusher vs. pointer debate right down the middle. It's a great tactic with birds that run hard and don't want to hold. It's fun too, especially when a hunting buddy sees it for the first time. You have to be able to read your dog real well and know just how close he or she is to putting birds in the air for this to pan out consistently. Getting to know your dog that well is always a joy.

I imagine my dog and my methods would likely not be received openly by the field trial circuit but like I said, it's a pretty satisfying way to hunt wild birds.


I use the "whoa" command rather than "sit" on my pointers working running birds like pheasants. If I know that continued pressure by my dog will flush the rooster, I just whoa him until I can get into position to make the shot and then give my dog an "OK" to resume hunting (tracking generally by then). Sometimes we have to go through several of the "whoa", me catch up, and release the dog before those running rascals tire of it and flush. When they do finally flush, you have to be in position to take the shot. Like WyoChukar said, you really have to know your dog, but when it is working, it is a very satisfying experience.

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