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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Wad catching choke? |
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Posted:
Thu Apr 12, 2018 10:52 pm
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3185
Location: NCWa
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A friend who shoots a bunch of trap (thousands and thousands of shots/year) has a new attachment for the end of the barrel, It's a screw-in choke that has slanted holes cut in it. according to the maker the edges of the holes catch the wad slightly as it's going out of the barrel, the slight catch very slightly slows the wad but mainly causes the wad to open very shortly after leaving the barrel, which causes it to catch air and separate from the shot. the sales claim is that in so doing, the wad will have less effect on the pattern, resulting in more consistent patterning.
I forget the brand name of the chokes, but does this describe anything used by those on this board and if so, what has your experience with them been? |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 12:51 am
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 828
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I remember Briley I think it was. Several years ago they came out with a choke that was supposed to stop the spinning of the wad. Theory was the spinning of the wad threw the shot in a slight direction.
I would say what your friend has is just another gimmick to sell choke. Just my opinion which couldn't get you a cup of coffee.
I'm mainly a trap shooter but never came across anyone that mentioned either style of choke. Bill |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 3:21 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2357
Location: West MI
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Patternmaster has bumps in the choke claiming to delay the wad and help patterns.
https://www.patternmaster.com/about/index.php |
Last edited by putz463 on Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:05 am; edited 1 time in total _________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 6:57 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2069
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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sorry , I'm a skeptic of 8K psi and 1200 fps being slowed by much of anything before it leaves the muzzle . |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:56 am
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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No offense to anyone.....but this is just another choke manufacturer selling snake oil.
A few years back there were chokes made with 4 protrusions 90 degrees from each other with the same theory. The theory sounds good but in practical application there is no truth in it. I believe the company is the one named above, Pattermaster. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:03 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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"Wad Stripper" chokes are nothing new. Gary Nailon was making the angle ported Clearview chokes long ago under the same premise. I understand how they work, but have my doubts that it does any good.
The velocity of pressurized air escaping trough the ports pulls the wad tight against them in order to delay the wad and allow the shot charge to get away from the wad so that the wad doesn't ram into the back of the charge and cause errant flight of pellets. The theory sounds good and would work if it weren't for one thing: much greater gas pressure behind the wad forcing it forward. It's kind of like trying to slow a falling bowling ball with a net made of tissue, not enough to make a difference.
The spinning wad thing was addressed quite some time ago by Hastings with their Wadlock barrels that had straight lands/ grooves to prevent rotation. This, if I remember right, led to straight grooved choke tubes. I never tried one so can't say if they helped. New idea? Nope. Thompson Center has been building straight land choke tubes for their .45/.410 barrels to counter act the rotation imparted by the twist rifled barrel (necessary for proper performance of the .45 cal bullets) for many decades. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:30 am
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 828
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WyoChukar wrote: |
"Wad Stripper" chokes are nothing new. Gary Nailon was making the angle ported Clearview chokes long ago under the same premise. I understand how they work, but have my doubts that it does any good.
The velocity of pressurized air escaping trough the ports pulls the wad tight against them in order to delay the wad and allow the shot charge to get away from the wad so that the wad doesn't ram into the back of the charge and cause errant flight of pellets. The theory sounds good and would work if it weren't for one thing: much greater gas pressure behind the wad forcing it forward. It's kind of like trying to slow a falling bowling ball with a net made of tissue, not enough to make a difference.
The spinning wad thing was addressed quite some time ago by Hastings with their Wadlock barrels that had straight lands/ grooves to prevent rotation. This, if I remember right, led to straight grooved choke tubes. I never tried one so can't say if they helped. New idea? Nope. Thompson Center has been building straight land choke tubes for their .45/.410 barrels to counter act the rotation imparted by the twist rifled barrel (necessary for proper performance of the .45 cal bullets) for many decades.
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Yes I rember now. Hastings. Old memory don't work as good as 40 yrs ago. |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 11:35 am
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Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3185
Location: NCWa
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As a follow-up on the posting, I talked to my friend the trap-shooter and he said that while he has noticed no difference in his shooting scores (so possibly no difference in the patterns) he has noticed that his wads do stop much sooner, falling about half as far as the wads fired through the standard choke. So the advantage would be if the shooter wanted to retrieve the fired wads, but no apparent advantage regarding performance of the shot pattern. |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 7:07 pm
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Member
Joined: 10 Jul 2010
Posts: 356
Location: Ponchatoula, Louisiana
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Just to throw this in the gumbo, most of the guides I have hunted with in southwest Louisiana use Patternmaster chokes. They claim that by stripping the wad the shot does not string out as much making for a denser, harder hitting pattern. I have empirical data to back that up, when I shoot geese with mine, I find they really get slammed. When I shoot pasture clays they get dusted, not so with my regular chokes. Patternmaster is pricey and not for the hi-velocity loads but it works for me.
Regards.
Chuck |
_________________ The reason I am awed by shotgun shooters is that most of them don’t know how in the hell they do what they do.
Charles F. Waterman, |
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Posted:
Fri Apr 13, 2018 8:35 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT
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Wads and chokes have little or nothing to do with shot string length.
That is up to aerodynamics, based mostly on how round the shot is. |
_________________ Mark |
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Posted:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 3:04 am
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Member
Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2357
Location: West MI
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WyoChukar wrote: |
New idea? Nope. Thompson Center has been building straight land choke tubes for their .45/.410 barrels to counter act the rotation imparted by the twist rifled barrel (necessary for proper performance of the .45 cal bullets) for many decades.
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For the 357 as well, as I understand it, to facilitate the use of their snake charmer shot capsules, same reasoning as mentioned to negate spin to extend the shot' effectiveness. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 9:45 am
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Joined: 12 Feb 2018
Posts: 258
Location: West-central Missouri
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I haven't tried any on my 16 but have tested many extended chokes on my 12G BPS (2 friends with BPS buy every new gadget). Only one patterned better than the factory Inv+; one of the most affordable, Black Maxx Turkey from Bass Pro (used my rewards so it was free to me). Tested both lead & TM shot. Late season ducks with Kent tungsten, great knock-down/kill. If they make it in 16, I'll get one for turkey. Very helpful on public land/water where close is hard to come by... |
_________________ An ounce of fives, the smell of nitro in paper hulls, wet gundog, and Hoppe's #9... |
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Posted:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 10:46 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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There's one way to find out: a "with and without test" at the pattern board. In order to obtain valid proof/results there must be two choke tubes used in the same barrel with the same load/ loads under the same conditions. I do recall some extended chokes being available with our without the ports, hopefully that is still the case.
It is a must that internal profiles (tapers, constriction, parallel length, extension length) be identical to isolate the wad stripping event and find out if it makes a difference in patterns.
One way to make certain of this is to use one tube, non ported and shoot a series of patterns. Then, take this same tube and properly port it with proper equipment to duplicate port size, port arrangement, and port angle of a known "was stripping" choke tube. One would know for sure then. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 11:25 am
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Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were
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Back in the 80s, or before, Ljutic’s trap gun offered a fixed choke with a series of ridges or rings thru the choke section in a thought to retarding passage of the wad.
Not sure if the option worked...as the gun itself was too ugly to purchase. |
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Posted:
Sat Apr 14, 2018 12:42 pm
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Member
Joined: 16 Nov 2006
Posts: 1338
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Last edited by mike campbell on Fri Jul 26, 2019 9:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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