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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:21 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

in my yute , only the neighbor had a 16 - an A-5 . No one liked it ! My family had 97's period . Gramps was one of those 1st yr trades for a 93 . You were shunned if you didn't follow suit . When I was 16 , had enough money to buy a cherry M12 from Naum bros for 59 bucks . Short chambered , but no one knew . Shot tons of shells thru it . Was about 25 when the Davis came along . Never knew whether it was short or not till Byrdog chamber cast it - rechambered 23/4 . Accumulated many shots thru it by now . Have shot many 16's in between . Keep coming back !

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Researcher
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 6:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Jun 2009
Posts: 695
Location: WA/AK

Quote:
hard believe in the late 1800's, anyone caught using a 12ga was considered a wuss....when the 10ga was boss.


That is an old wive's tale. The 10-gauge was never boss. The 12-gauge has ruled since the introduction of breechloading shotguns in North America after the Civil War. Charlie Price presented a paper on the subject July 21, 2001, at the Parker Gun Collectors 7th Annual Meeting and Conference held in Cleveland. The 10-gauge's popularity peaked in the 1881 to 85 time period, but never reached the 12-gauge's. By 1897 10-gauge production was down to a trickle.

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bobski
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2018
Posts: 621
Location: va, ct, mo

coming from the era when men used punt guns and living in the chesaapeke bay area currently....i tend to believe the wives tales. :>

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 8:40 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Patrick,

The great thing about Layne was that he did his home work prior to writing, as an over view his article is one of the closest to actual reality as you will find.

It is unfortunate that in those era's many of the larger gun manufacturers sales and production records were not fully kept, as an over view however I do believe Layne was spot on as to his percentages of 16 Gauge gun sales and ownership.

I will add this however there were guns produced and shipped to owners by both L.C. Smith and Ithaca with all sales and production records included, at the purchasers request. I have 3 of these 16 Gauge double gun that were passed down to me, thru our family.

The point I am making is there must be a lot more of these undocumented guns than most people realize. Especially the guns that were produced just after the World Wars, when many Americans of Euro decent wanted no records kept by anybody, of the Guns they purchased. The term executive guns was mistakenly put on the guns supplied in this manner, in reality both companies supplied guns to purchasers in this manner upon request, no matter the grade of the gun. I know for a fact both L.C. Smith and Ithaca did this for their customers, I own some of those guns. Remember also both these Companies produced very large quantities of American made Shotguns. Further there were never any exacting records kept of the guns gifted to individuals, Stage Lines and Railroads in there perspective era's.

Although there are lots of production and sales records of many companies there is no way to actually tell how many 16 Gauge guns were actually produced or who actually purchased them.

In fact maybe it's better that way. Ben Franklin writing the Pa Constitution spelled it out in plain english, Article 1 section 21, the right of the citizens of Pa to own and Bare Arms shall not be questioned. Meaning ownership of arms by a Pa citizen is no business of the government or law enforcement and shall not be questioned.

Modern politicians in Pa have no business talking to a Pa Citizen about the ownership of their fire arms. In fact it's unconstitutional if they do it. No Pa city, town or county can legally enact laws or ordinances to counter the Pa Constitution.

Pine Creek/Dave

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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 9:32 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Ben Franklin writing the Pa Constitution spelled it out in plain english, Article 1 section 21, the right of the citizens of Pa to own and Bare Arms shall not be questioned.

Pine Creek/Dave


So prior to Ben were all PA citizens required to have long sleeve shirts?
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tramroad28
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:23 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 625
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
...I will add this however there were guns produced and shipped to owners by both L.C. Smith and Ithaca with all sales and production records included, at the purchasers request. I have 3 of these 16 Gauge double gun that were passed down to me, thru our family.
The point I am making is there must be a lot more of these undocumented guns than most people realize.


Interesting info...and it must be difficult info for the collectors and scattergun collector groups to accept.

Still, we all know that the collector groups have the true developed experience and true researched skinny on models, etc. and, especially, on ferreting out the many fakes.

Well done, collector groups as you often have your work cut out for you these days.
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canvasback
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

bobski wrote:
coming from the era when men used punt guns and living in the chesaapeke bay area currently....i tend to believe the wives tales. :>


Researcher has an apt handle. He tends to do it, unlike many of us who just say stuff because we think it. My experience is that Researcher has done the research.

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1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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canvasback
PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 2:15 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Patrick,

Ben Franklin writing the Pa Constitution spelled it out in plain english, Article 1 section 21, the right of the citizens of Pa to own and Bare Arms shall not be questioned.

Pine Creek/Dave


Lol. Good to see old Ben was looking out for those of us who like to roll up our sleeves!

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1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:37 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2786
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Gentlemen,

Spell checkers do suck, the word should be bear, not bare, the one in our Mac is devastating at times, changing complete words, using them out of context.

I do take it you school teachers understood the point of what was written.

I do miss my admin assistant for proof reading however, engineers are technical writers, not school teachers. We sure have enough liberal nut case public teachers, even here on the 16 forum, from the looks of it.

Pine Creek/Dave


Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:45 am; edited 2 times in total

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bobski
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 8:43 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 18 Feb 2018
Posts: 621
Location: va, ct, mo

researcher needs no defenders. hes rock solid.
but, knowing it, living it is apples oranges.
knowledge is great and well received.
seeing it live out in front of you is priceless.
if you lived down here in the ches bay, youd understand.

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canvasback
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:05 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 12 Mar 2012
Posts: 684
Location: Ontario

PC Dave, it was just too funny not to comment. And I agree......sometimes spellcheck comes up with some real winners.

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1921 Pieper 29" 6 lbs 10 oz
2003 Citori White Lightning 26" 6 lbs 10 oz
1932 Husqvarna 310AS 29.5" 6 lbs 7 oz
1925 Ferlach 29" 6 lbs 7 oz
1923 Greifelt 29" 6 lbs 1 oz
1928 Simson 29.5" 6 lbs
1893 Lindner Daly FW 28” 5 lb 11oz
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AmericanMeet
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3172
Location: NCWa

PC - We appreciate all of the information and please don't take the comments personally. We all have had our issues with spell check, grammar check and the various programs designed to compensate for education programs that prefer to teach issues at the expense of education. Note that all of us that noted the spell check adjustment had read the posting completely, and as noted, appreciate it.
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Dave In AZ
PostPosted: Fri Apr 20, 2018 3:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 348

I just thought I'd say "Thanks" to Researcher, I always enjoy his posts, and find him to be knowledgeable and credible. I usually learn something when I read him.

Someone mentioned Chesapeake and punt guns... I just bought "Outlaw Gunner" and am working through it, good book and interesting. Talks about that sort of stuff.
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