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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 1:36 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

JNW wrote:
I played around with “other” primers for several years trying to save a few dollars. After some angst I started using Federal 209As for my light 7/8 oz 12 gauge loads to get good ignition and Win 209s for everything else. One of the best reloading decisions I’ve ever made.
Jeff


Copycat Laughing

Back what, 12-15 years ago when the price of lead almost doubled in price many of us went through the same exercise to save money where we could Jeff. Add Promo powder to that list.

Now there is a good selection of 7/8 oz. 12 ga. shells at 1200 fps available already loaded up. And when they go on sale with free shipping I order 10 cases at a time delivered to my door for close to the same price it costs me to load them. The 16 is the only one I load for anymore.

Dogchaser37 wrote:
Cold Iron,

There is no standard for crimp depth in any SAAMI standard. There are also no standards for reloads in the SAAMI standards, with the exception being, to use SAAMI MAP for each gauge as the absolute maximum chamber pressure. So each lab has to come up with it's own standards and procedures, crimp depth being one.

Hodgdon has come up with THEIR standard crimp depth as being 0.055" and that is associated with their loading data. I am not sure if other powder companies use 0.055" crimp depth. Since DownRange doesn't provide loading data I am not sure why they use 0.055" unless it is monkey see monkey do.

Personally I believe 0.055" to be too shallow for the reasons I stated.

Also, 0.055" is fine for a load that uses a target powder, but what happens when it gets cold and you are using Blue Dot or Steel? You will find that performance will drop off more than a similar load with a deeper crimp.

I don't see any advantage to a load with a crimp deeper than 0.070", because now you will begin to encroach on the amount of powder you can use, which in turn will affect velocity.

I understand that a deeper crimp will raise chamber pressure, but that doesn't automatically mean that you turn a certain reload into a barrel shredding grenade.

Folks in general are afraid of pressure....pressure is your friend when it comes to shotshells....and well formed crimps with a depth of 0.060" to 0.070" can make a better reload.

Like I said my ideas are food for thought.


Mark there has been at least 2 people on here in the last couple of years that have had shells way over SAAMI pressure limits and both times they had .070 crimps. Alliant told one to reduce his crimps to .055 and Precision Loading did the same for the other one.

Did it blow up the guns? No. But why are the SAAMI limits in place? It is a fact that .070 is too deep without testing, at least for some shells. How do you tell which ones? Reinvent the wheel and send them all out for testing? Alliant and Hodgden already did that for us. With a standard .055 crimp across the board.

And you do know the crimp depth that Alliant uses for testing and have stated so in the past.

huntNnut wrote:
kgb,

Tom Armbrust did a test on crimp depths. The deeper you go the higher the chamber pressure, with some gain in velocity too. Supposedly Alliant and Hodgdon use a depth of .055" when they are testing loads. Rolling or tapering the top of the crimp is part of a good crimp, so you aren't adding any pressure.

Flat to slightly concave doesn't seem to change anything to any great extent. If it is really dished, it ain't a well thought out load. Laughing

I always try to set the crimp depth at 1/16" with a well tapered shoulder to 'lock' the crimp. The results have always been fine. In reality any depth from .040" to .065" is going to work. Not really sure that crimp depth affects case life. I don't care either way.
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Mark, Dogchaser37



So everyone uses the same crimp depth for testing pressure, .055.

I live, shoot and hunt in what is traditionally year after year the coldest State in CONUS. And never have felt the need to use anything deeper than .055 for a crimp. And never had a problem with the loads feeding in a gun.

Of course you are free to use whatever depth you want. I know for years on SGW and even here you used what pretty much everyone else does, although personally I feel .040 is too shallow. Not sure why you changed a few years ago to .070 and none of my business.

You don't have to convince me to use a .070 crimp and your not going to. Because I see no need to deviate from what works. It is Alliant and Hodgdon that you need to convince if that is your desire to change the standard that everyone else is using. And what you used to.
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Dogchaser37
PostPosted: Sun Jul 01, 2018 2:15 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 08 Aug 2011
Posts: 1946
Location: Central CT

Cold Iron,

I have never crimped at 0.055”, and I didn’t know that Alliant used 0.055” for a crimp depth.

I would hate to tell you where I got the thickness of a dime idea. You probably wouldn’t believe me.

Anyway like I said food for thought.

You have to understand that the reloads that I use are all my own and developed using a deeper crimp than 0.055”. The only reloads that I use that aren’t mine are some 1oz. 700-X 12 Gauge loads that are well under 11,500 PSI to begin with.

I did not say that everyone needs to change or is wrong. I just tossed the idea out there.

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Mark
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16crazy
PostPosted: Wed Jul 11, 2018 5:23 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Oct 2005
Posts: 240

After a shooting test I found the the 3/4 ounce load problem was completely solved with any one of the following two options:

1) 1 grain more powder making a total of 17 grains Green Dot with FIO 616 primer

or...

2) 16 grains Green Dot with a Federal 209 primer

I shot a round of clays with both loads.

Thanks to all for the input.
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