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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Bears and Bird Dogs |
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Posted:
Tue Sep 04, 2018 6:51 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 1115
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I'm in the planning stages of my fall western bird trip, and Montana is a problem this year. Plentywood in the NE corner has been good to me in the past, but according to all I can gather, the drought has really impacted bird numbers bad. My research says that Region 4 should be a lot better and contact with the Region 4 upland manager points toward the Sweetgrass Hills area just below the Canadian border. This is where the bears come in. All the BMA's in this area advise carrying bear spray and warn of possible bear contact including grizzly bears. Anyone have any knowledge of how dogs will react to bears and whether grizzlies think 73 pound GSP's are a nice snack? I've hunted big game in grizzly country before, but never with bird dogs, and I was carrying some serious (280 AI) firepower, not a 16 ga shotgun. Any ideas other than don't do it? |
_________________ An elderly gentleman, his faithful dogs, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:33 am
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Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2068
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)
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999 out of 1000 bears will be ok ... it's that 1 of 1000 that you will have to react to and you don't know which guy/gal it is !! |
_________________ Molly sez AArrrooooooah ! |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 10:25 am
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1318
Location: Western WA
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Quote: |
Anyone have any knowledge of how dogs will react to bears and whether grizzlies think 73 pound GSP's are a nice snack?
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We're familiar with the area and your concerns are not unfounded. Griz attacks on bird hunters have occurred recently but are VERY rare considering the number of hunters there.
The most common scenario is a sow with cubs. The bear typically attacks the hunter, not the dog. Young roaming boars can also be troublesome. The attacks have been very fast and unexpected with a quick charge out of the brush and not a staredown with no time to grab the bear spray, as the presence of the dog tends to trigger the attack on the hunter.
There is very little one can do other than avoid areas where bears have been reported, but even then there is actually not much comfort as bears can move great distances overnight.
Once you are there it is kind of like an occupational hazard, and in my view is no reason to look elsewhere as that region is a SPECTACULAR destination.
Good Luck,
B. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 2:06 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2812
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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Gentlemen,
Here in Potter County, Pa we have lots of Black Bears, few are real problems. Do not make a problem where there is none, understand how to be safe around them and do not play games or feed them. Most times the Bear will turn and walk away from a dog or human.
We have had incidents here in Pa with Bears entering peoples homes as they chase dogs away from their cubs. A very dangerous situation, always have a gun in your home and know how to use it, especially if you life near the SFL or SGL.
Bears are not domestic animals, they are dangerous wild animals. Do not play games with them or feed them.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 3:18 pm
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Joined: 14 Jun 2018
Posts: 44
Location: SC
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Brewster11 wrote: |
Quote: |
Anyone have any knowledge of how dogs will react to bears and whether grizzlies think 73 pound GSP's are a nice snack?
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We're familiar with the area and your concerns are not unfounded. Griz attacks on bird hunters have occurred recently but are VERY rare considering the number of hunters there.
The most common scenario is a sow with cubs. The bear typically attacks the hunter, not the dog. Young roaming boars can also be troublesome. The attacks have been very fast and unexpected with a quick charge out of the brush and not a staredown with no time to grab the bear spray, as the presence of the dog tends to trigger the attack on the hunter.
There is very little one can do other than avoid areas where bears have been reported, but even then there is actually not much comfort as bears can move great distances overnight.
Once you are there it is kind of like an occupational hazard, and in my view is no reason to look elsewhere as that region is a SPECTACULAR destination.
Good Luck,
B.
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So, what you're saying is, have fun, but keep your head on a swivel? I'm making my first trip to Maine this October, but after reading A High and Lonesome Call by Robert Holthauser, I'm heading north and west as soon as I possibly can. Next fall if at all possible. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 4:45 pm
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In Tennessee If you have a carry permit you can carry a pistol while hunting. Check the laws where you're going. A big bore revolver is a lot of peace of mind in the woods. Most of the predators I worry about are feral dogs and meth heads. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:08 pm
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Member
Joined: 27 Jun 2012
Posts: 1115
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Paperhulls wrote: |
In Tennessee If you have a carry permit you can carry a pistol while hunting. Check the laws where you're going. A big bore revolver is a lot of peace of mind in the woods. Most of the predators I worry about are feral dogs and meth heads.
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I travel with a Sig P226 40 S&W in a Galco Miami Classic shoulder harness that the gun rides low enough to not interfere with mounting the shotgun, but I wonder how effective that round would be. I'm not sure if the 16 ga full in the face might be more damaging in the extremis situation. |
_________________ An elderly gentleman, his faithful dogs, and a 16 ga SXS. All is right with the world. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 5:32 pm
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Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 286
Location: Finger Lakes
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Riflemeister wrote: |
I'm in the planning stages of my fall western bird trip, and Montana is a problem this year. Plentywood in the NE corner has been good to me in the past, but according to all I can gather, the drought has really impacted bird numbers bad. My research says that Region 4 should be a lot better and contact with the Region 4 upland manager points toward the Sweetgrass Hills area just below the Canadian border. This is where the bears come in. All the BMA's in this area advise carrying bear spray and warn of possible bear contact including grizzly bears. Anyone have any knowledge of how dogs will react to bears and whether grizzlies think 73 pound GSP's are a nice snack? I've hunted big game in grizzly country before, but never with bird dogs, and I was carrying some serious (280 AI) firepower, not a 16 ga shotgun. Any ideas other than don't do it?
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Carry some slugs. |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:22 pm
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Riflemeister wrote: |
Paperhulls wrote: |
In Tennessee If you have a carry permit you can carry a pistol while hunting. Check the laws where you're going. A big bore revolver is a lot of peace of mind in the woods. Most of the predators I worry about are feral dogs and meth heads.
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I travel with a Sig P226 40 S&W in a Galco Miami Classic shoulder harness that the gun rides low enough to not interfere with mounting the shotgun, but I wonder how effective that round would be. I'm not sure if the 16 ga full in the face might be more damaging in the extremis situation.
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In a .40 I'd carry this in grizzly country https://www.lehighdefense.com/collections/ammo/products/40-s-w-140gr-xtreme-penetrator-ammunition?variant=1066283200[/url] |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:36 pm
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Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana
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I have hunted grouse in SW Montana for 33 years. There are healthy Grizzly populations throughout this area. I carry a 16 gauge, two bear spray canisters and a .41 Magnum. All these methods of defense are extremely marginal at best, if an actual encounter does take place. I entertain no false bravado about my chances of effectively countering an attack. I just prepare and remain vigilant. Both hoping it never happens and hoping if it does - it works out in my favor.
If you choose to hunt where there are Grizzlies, you choose to assume certain risks- period. The reward is still worth it to me - even though Griz populations are expanding in both range and density.
No offense - but - comments about Glock side arms, black bears in PA, and meth heads are of no use while hunting birds in MT G. bear country.
My dogs are my best friends as well as hunting pards, and my biggest concern is their safety. If you hunt Montana G bear country, you will also have to deal with mountain lions and often wolves.
Again, hunt here -enjoy it but assume the risks.... |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:36 pm
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Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana
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I have hunted grouse in SW Montana for 33 years. There are healthy Grizzly populations throughout this area. I carry a 16 gauge, two bear spray canisters and a .41 Magnum. All these methods of defense are extremely marginal at best, if an actual encounter does take place. I entertain no false bravado about my chances of effectively countering an attack. I just prepare and remain vigilant. Both hoping it never happens and hoping if it does - it works out in my favor.
If you choose to hunt where there are Grizzlies, you choose to assume certain risks- period. The reward is still worth it to me - even though Griz populations are expanding in both range and density.
No offense - but - comments about Glock side arms, black bears in PA, and meth heads are of no use while hunting birds in MT G. bear country.
My dogs are my best friends as well as hunting pards, and my biggest concern is their safety. If you hunt Montana G bear country, you will also have to deal with mountain lions and often wolves.
Again, hunt here -enjoy it but assume the risks.... |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:37 pm
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Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana
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I have hunted grouse in SW Montana for 33 years. There are healthy Grizzly populations throughout this area. I carry a 16 gauge, two bear spray canisters and a .41 Magnum. All these methods of defense are extremely marginal at best, if an actual encounter does take place. I entertain no false bravado about my chances of effectively countering an attack. I just prepare and remain vigilant. Both hoping it never happens and hoping if it does - it works out in my favor.
If you choose to hunt where there are Grizzlies, you choose to assume certain risks- period. The reward is still worth it to me - even though Griz populations are expanding in both range and density.
No offense - but - comments about Glock side arms, black bears in PA, and meth heads are of no use while hunting birds in MT G. bear country.
My dogs are my best friends as well as hunting pards, and my biggest concern is their safety. If you hunt Montana G bear country, you will also have to deal with mountain lions and often wolves.
Again, hunt here -enjoy it but assume the risks.... |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 6:38 pm
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Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana
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sorry about the multiple post - incompetence on display..... |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 7:02 pm
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Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana
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Riflemeister wrote: |
Paperhulls wrote: |
In Tennessee If you have a carry permit you can carry a pistol while hunting. Check the laws where you're going. A big bore revolver is a lot of peace of mind in the woods. Most of the predators I worry about are feral dogs and meth heads.
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I travel with a Sig P226 40 S&W in a Galco Miami Classic shoulder harness that the gun rides low enough to not interfere with mounting the shotgun, but I wonder how effective that round would be. I'm not sure if the 16 ga full in the face might be more damaging in the extremis situation.
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I see these "which gun for Griz" discussions on the web with some frequency.
Realistically, keep in mind that an actual encounter will likely be quick with little time to react.
Most of us "sportsmen" are "proficient" at best with a side arm.
Watch some you tube videos of trained LEO's in a fire fight with a crook(s) and see how often things go according to plan......
Now imagine crapping your drawers while a 300 Lb+ pissed off bear in your personal space - and having the composure to take care of business.
The reality(s) of these situations eludes most......
Luckily, these ARE rare......... |
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Posted:
Wed Sep 05, 2018 8:48 pm
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mtbirder I was just pointing out that even though I really don't have a lot of worries about dangerous predators, I still carry enough gun to handle most problems. I'm a big fan of Keith style 250gr bullets. Black bears aren't unheard of in my area. Years ago I had a college internship where I helped trap nuisance black bears and relocate them. So I'm familar. I claim no knowledge of Montana but I suppose it would be prudent to carry something for protection. |
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