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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Help choosing another dog |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:11 am
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 120
Location: South Dakota
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Looking for some thoughts or experiences with what dogs you guys are running. Currently I have a lab that will be 7 this coming year and she is a great hunter and friend to us. Some of the breeds we have on the list are pudelpointer English setter and maybe a Nova Scotia Toller. Not sure about pointer or another retriever anything I’m missing or should look into? |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:07 am
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Joined: 18 Jun 2004
Posts: 438
Location: thick and uncivilized places in the Allegheny Mts.
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For Grouse and Woodcock? I enjoy my Ryman-type English Setters. https://rymansetters.com/ |
_________________ Going into coverts becomes less a chase with the sole purpose of killing; it remains important to find game but the gratification-and I keep coming back to that word-is in the beauty of finding it. George Bird Evans A Dog, A Gun, And Time Enough. |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 7:10 am
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Member
Joined: 22 Aug 2011
Posts: 1498
Location: the Moosehorn
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English Setter with Lewellen breeding, white and orange is my favorite |
_________________ ALWAYS wear the safety glasses
If you take Cranberries and stew them like applesauce they taste much more like Prunes than Rhubarb does ----G.M/ |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:24 am
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 120
Location: South Dakota
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Yes for grouse, woodcock maybe pheasants and some trips out west hopefully. |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 8:56 am
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Joined: 07 Aug 2013
Posts: 163
Location: Utah
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I'm an English Setter guy and prefer hunting behind Ryman type setters.
My best hunting buddy runs Drahttaars. They are a machine when it comes to pheasant and do well on grouse but in the grouse coverts my setters do a better job.
Setters are just the classic dog to hunt grouse kind of like using a side by side. All those painters can't be wrong.
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:10 am
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Member
Joined: 14 Jan 2006
Posts: 1007
Location: Lancaster county, Pa
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I have a Pudelpointer and 2 English setters. I usually run the Pudelpointer and 1 setter at a time. The Pudelpointer hunts close within 40 yards. The setters have more range 100-200 yards. The Pudelpointer finds birds but the setters find more. I love the versatility of the PP hunting ducks with him and he is a good bird dog with a good nose. The little trial Setter I am running now just flat out finds more birds he's a specialist and his search is relentless. That being said a lot of guys are not comfortable with a dog like that. I trust him and believe in him when he gets out of bell range it's usually not long until I here him again. He's honest and will stand a bird for as long as it takes for me to get there. If I had to hunt grouse with 1 dog it would be him. Luckily I don't have too so I have both. |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 10:36 am
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Joined: 08 Mar 2016
Posts: 120
Location: South Dakota
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Do any of you guys running the setters have any trouble with them retrieving birds? |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:31 am
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Member
Joined: 30 Nov 2011
Posts: 1701
Location: Minnesota
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Not going to recommend a breed, just want to point out that it takes WAY more time to train pointers than the flusher retrievers. At least that's my experience after getting my first pointer just under 3 yrs ago. |
_________________ Great dog, Great friends,Great guns |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 11:58 am
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 757
Location: Mn.
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Gran16 wrote: |
Do any of you guys running the setters have any trouble with them retrieving birds?
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Not that they will ever admit LOL. Retrieving is not their strong suit but a few here and there are more than decent with a good force fetch program. Some not so much even with FF.
First real hunting dog was a Ryman out of Decoverly kennels, I drove down to Pa. to pick her out in the early 80's. But been around Tollers for almost 30 years now and owned by them for about 25. Couple of years ago thought I needed another English Setter so took in a Lew rescue. Big runner covered 1,000 yards to get warmed up and in wolf country that was a show stopper. He ended up out in the Dakotas with a dentist that hunts on horse back.
My first Toller was out of Cayuga Kennels in Upstate NY.
My current pink nosed Toller is 4 and from North Dakota.
I knew the breeder for about 20 years and her program and was sure I'd get one from her. Or Dan who lives in Mn. and is now president of NSDTR(USA).
They are not a Lab or a Golden and can be a handful. But that keeps you on your toes.
Last fall the AKC evaulated the NSDTR for entry into the flushing hunt test. Well actually it is called the springer hunt test but same thing. I was invited but work got in the way. The group of Tollers that were able to make it passed and starting next month are eligible to run in the Springer hunt tests.
I hunt grouse and pheasants with my guys more than waterfowl and always have. But they aren't for everyone. Any questions about Tollers feel free to send me a PM. |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 12:16 pm
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Joined: 03 Feb 2008
Posts: 830
Location: Adirondak Mtns
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Brittany on my second and no regrets. |
_________________ Interested in older US made SxS and upland hunting. New to reloading shot shells and looking for info and advice. |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 2:32 pm
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Member
Joined: 12 Aug 2007
Posts: 1376
Location: Northern Illinois
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I run Ryman type setters and have for the last 15 years. Before that I ran German Shorthair Pointers for over 30 years and I think they are also a good choice. In the northern woods of MI my dogs work inside of 75 yards and for the most part at 35 to 55 yards. For most of them that came naturally and for one of them it took a lot of whistling in and reminders until he figured it out, but he is now the best dog I have ever owned.
A number of friends run Ryman types and I have had similar experiences with their dogs. One of my hunting buddies has been a guide at the RGS National hunt for the past five or six years and his Ryman types have finished with at least a bronze plate three of the last five years, so the line can hold its own against the countries best grouse dogs.
FWIW I have hunted over at least 15 Ryman type setters and every single one of them retrieved and not one of them was force broke. I have nothing against force breaking, they just have not needed it.
Someone already gave you the link to rymansetters.com and that is a good site to find a solid breeder who does the proper health checks.
Good Hunting,
Mike |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:09 pm
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Member
Joined: 08 Nov 2005
Posts: 3440
Location: Illinois
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Can't imagine anything other than a Lab!! |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 4:27 pm
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Joined: 28 Oct 2015
Posts: 167
Location: SWMO
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I thought only 1 breed existed?
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 5:34 pm
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Joined: 05 Nov 2016
Posts: 189
Location: Montana
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On the internet, asking a bunch of guys about "which dog", is a lesson in futility.
I love labs, had one.
Had a water spaniel/lab cross - very interesting dog.
I currently have an absolutely remarkable Grif.
I also have an 11+ year old lab/Grif cross (that would curl the nose hairs on breeders and dog snobs) that excels at EVERYTHING hunting all fowl - a one of a kind never have again dog. People think she's a PP.
Both my Grif and lab/grif cross needed very very little training - it was all hardwired, I just exposed them to wild birds young - a lot.
Looks like wyochukar does just fine with a cowdog (?)....joking......
Always thought Setters beautiful, but where I hunt - the hitchhikers would drive me and them over the edge....
And those dogs with no hair
Fun topic with little chance of serious resolution except by the one getting the pup......
Now straight english or POW.............
[URL=http://www.jpgbox.com/page/55815_600x400/]
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Posted:
Wed Jan 02, 2019 9:26 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2127
Location: Hudson,Wy
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I'm a Border Collie man. My current dog Rusty actually gets mistaken for a Toller from time to time, and he really looks a lot like one. I will probably always run BC's, but there is a lot to be said for an English (or Gordon) Setter or Brittany too. Retrieving? My buddy's Brittalnies have been good retrievers.
Living where you do, I imagine winters are cold and the dog will have to deal with that out in the woods, so get something with a long coat. I know how proud people are of the GSP's and English Pointers, but after having to thaw one friend's GSP in my car for 45 minutes when he went into shock in North Dakota, I feel a dog needs some fur up north. This was the second event for that dog; he nearly died (literally) the other time.
Whatever you choose, remember that a truly great dog requires two things and neither one comes on a piece of paper. First, the dog requires time. Your effort and training will pay dividends according to how much you are willing to work with the animal. The second thing is exposure to wild birds, as often as possible. Pen raised birds help fill in the gap, but are not a substitute. I have seen dogs that are superstars on released pheasants have no clue how to deal with wild birds unit they relearned how to deal with birds that are unpredictable.
Good luck with whatever you choose and post pictures of the pup when it happens. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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