16ga.com Forum Index
Author Message
<  16ga. Guns  ~  My New Model 12 duck plugs
Woody402
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:30 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 286
Location: Finger Lakes

MaximumSmoke wrote:
At a maximum specific gravity of about .62 (i.e. .62 g/cc), a 1/2 inch diameter birch dowel 6 inches long would weigh .422 ounce (185 grains, for you bullet guys). That makes a pretty nice plug, similar to what Winchester put in Model 12's (after 1935, if I remember correctly). That's what I use in early Model 12's (older than the plug requirement). Model 12 Duck guns have a lead weight in the buttstock to counterbalance the heavy, thick barrel of the 3-inch chambered gun. They balance quite nicely that way, as a Model 12 should. I had my 30-inch solid ribbed Duck gun back-bored to remove 3 ounces from the barrel and use either the original buttstock minus the lead weight (which is a lot more than 3 oz.), or a set of straight-gripped wood from a 2 3/4 inch Model 12 Trap gun. Both sets of wood have the old red Winchester pad, which, while good looking, gives practically no cushion against recoil. The gun balances nicely and is quite wieldy, and still is not a punishing gun with 1 7/8 ounce 3" lead loads, or high velocity steel loads. I'm not a big guy, either -- I was 5'8" and 125 pounds when I got it, lo those many years ago -- yeah, I'm heavier now . . . and shorter, too, probably. Laughing Anyway, I can't imagine throwing another 3 ounces on a Model 12 Duck Gun for balance or any other reasons, but to each his own.



I can’t Imagine shooting steel shot through my model 12. But to each his own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Woody402
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 6:48 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 286
Location: Finger Lakes

MaximumSmoke wrote:
At a maximum specific gravity of about .62 (i.e. .62 g/cc), a 1/2 inch diameter birch dowel 6 inches long would weigh .422 ounce (185 grains, for you bullet guys). That makes a pretty nice plug, similar to what Winchester put in Model 12's (after 1935, if I remember correctly). That's what I use in early Model 12's (older than the plug requirement). Model 12 Duck guns have a lead weight in the buttstock to counterbalance the heavy, thick barrel of the 3-inch chambered gun. They balance quite nicely that way, as a Model 12 should. I had my 30-inch solid ribbed Duck gun back-bored to remove 3 ounces from the barrel and use either the original buttstock minus the lead weight (which is a lot more than 3 oz.), or a set of straight-gripped wood from a 2 3/4 inch Model 12 Trap gun. Both sets of wood have the old red Winchester pad, which, while good looking, gives practically no cushion against recoil. The gun balances nicely and is quite wieldy, and still is not a punishing gun with 1 7/8 ounce 3" lead loads, or high velocity steel loads. I'm not a big guy, either -- I was 5'8" and 125 pounds when I got it, lo those many years ago -- yeah, I'm heavier now . . . and shorter, too, probably. Laughing Anyway, I can't imagine throwing another 3 ounces on a Model 12 Duck Gun for balance or any other reasons, but to each his own.



I can’t Imagine shooting steel shot through mine either. But to each his own.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
fourtown
PostPosted: Sat Feb 02, 2019 5:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Jan 2014
Posts: 223
Location: MN

Nasty-G wrote "never take your plug out".

And moreover, never try to install a makeshift plug while in a small duck boat before shooting time on opening morning. Having the mag spring launch the mag cap through your fingers out into the dark water can be a real downer on the best morning of the year.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
MaximumSmoke
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 2:56 pm  Reply with quote
Member
Member


Joined: 01 Dec 2005
Posts: 1550
Location: Minnesota and Florida

Woody -- I agree with you about shooting steel or any hard-alloy shot out of any gun of the Model 12 era, with an un-plated, tightly choked steel barrel in it's original condition. However, in an effort to use my M12 Duck as universal gun (impossible! wherever did I get that idea Laughing guess I thought at the time I wouldn't purchase another shotgun -- go figure Embarassed ), I long ago had Briley back-bore it to .740, lengthen the forcing cones and put in ThinWall choke tubes. It has, I must admit, been a marvelously versatile gun, and I can't think of any gamebird or target I've pursued in the areas I hunt and shoot that I haven't taken with it, including copious sharptails, Hungarian partridge, pheasants, geese, ducks, mergansers, pigeons, doves, blackbirds, and clay targets in skeet, trap and sporties. I've run just about every type of shot through it, most of which I've hand-loaded, including lead of all types, sizes and platings, Hevi-Shot, steel, Tungsten SuperShot, ITX-10 and -13, bismuth, Tung-Matrix (I think that's all . . .). The bore is untouched and shines like new. I'm careful how I load to protect the barrel, and I use I/C choke with any hard shot. I'm sure the forcing cone and back-bore help with very hard and large shot, too.

I paid $125 for this gun (solid ribbed 30-incher, 1956 mfg) when I was in college in about 1970 at the University of North Dakota. It had not been shot much, and it was then and is still a very nice looking gun in great shape. Back in the '70's it was confiscated by ND Game & Fish, from my older brother (an 870 guy, go figure), after he got caught shooting doves (no season at that point -- protected bird) a quarter mile from the house in which we grew up. At the time he was a USAF Lt. home on leave from his job as an instructor pilot on Craig AFB Selma AL, also a neighborhood in which he was used to shooting doves. (We had great dove shooting in ND long before ND made doves a gamebird.) The judge smiled favorably on him, probably because he was a Vietnam-era serviceman, and the USAF had great presence in ND, particularly in our neighborhood (a Minuteman missile field), and maybe in deference to his dove-shooting proclivities in Alabama, so he was warned and I got my Model 12 back! The arresting game warden was reported by my brother, to be very vocal in opposition to that judgement, right then and there, and felt more than somewhat pi55ed off!

Incidentally, a few years ago (jeez time flies) I inexpensively bought a little used but much neglected rough-on-the-outside, but new-on-the-inside Model 12 16 gauge, that some of you, I'm sure, have seen. I call it my "bottom-of-the-duck-boat" special. It was a 2 9/16 incher, and I had Mike Orlen lengthen the chamber and forcing cone, and take the choke out to .007" constriction. I moved the front of the ejection port forward .065" myself. These modifications were made specifically to shoot any shot out there, and it has worked out well -- I have $260 into this gun including shipment to & from Mike Orlen. It's not particularly pretty, but it is sound, shoots anything I can put in it, and shoots well for me. The bore is unmarked and shiny. It's a great rain gun or backup gun and I don't need to worry about knocking it around, or reducing it's value cosmetically/functionally. That's the gun I've used at the last two of Jeff Wiemann's spring 16 gauge shoots at South St. Paul Rod & Gun Club.

Cheers!
Tony
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Woody402
PostPosted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 6:34 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 25 Aug 2014
Posts: 286
Location: Finger Lakes

MaximumSmoke wrote:
Woody -- I agree with you about shooting steel or any hard-alloy shot out of any gun of the Model 12 era, with an un-plated, tightly choked steel barrel in it's original condition. However, in an effort to use my M12 Duck as universal gun (impossible! wherever did I get that idea Laughing guess I thought at the time I wouldn't purchase another shotgun -- go figure Embarassed ), I long ago had Briley back-bore it to .740, lengthen the forcing cones and put in ThinWall choke tubes. It has, I must admit, been a marvelously versatile gun, and I can't think of any gamebird or target I've pursued in the areas I hunt and shoot that I haven't taken with it, including copious sharptails, Hungarian partridge, pheasants, geese, ducks, mergansers, pigeons, doves, blackbirds, and clay targets in skeet, trap and sporties. I've run just about every type of shot through it, most of which I've hand-loaded, including lead of all types, sizes and platings, Hevi-Shot, steel, Tungsten SuperShot, ITX-10 and -13, bismuth, Tung-Matrix (I think that's all . . .). The bore is untouched and shines like new. I'm careful how I load to protect the barrel, and I use I/C choke with any hard shot. I'm sure the forcing cone and back-bore help with very hard and large shot, too.

I paid $125 for this gun (solid ribbed 30-incher, 1956 mfg) when I was in college in about 1970 at the University of North Dakota. It had not been shot much, and it was then and is still a very nice looking gun in great shape. Back in the '70's it was confiscated by ND Game & Fish, from my older brother (an 870 guy, go figure), after he got caught shooting doves (no season at that point -- protected bird) a quarter mile from the house in which we grew up. At the time he was a USAF Lt. home on leave from his job as an instructor pilot on Craig AFB Selma AL, also a neighborhood in which he was used to shooting doves. (We had great dove shooting in ND long before ND made doves a gamebird.) The judge smiled favorably on him, probably because he was a Vietnam-era serviceman, and the USAF had great presence in ND, particularly in our neighborhood (a Minuteman missile field), and maybe in deference to his dove-shooting proclivities in Alabama, so he was warned and I got my Model 12 back! The arresting game warden was reported by my brother, to be very vocal in opposition to that judgement, right then and there, and felt more than somewhat pi55ed off!

Incidentally, a few years ago (jeez time flies) I inexpensively bought a little used but much neglected rough-on-the-outside, but new-on-the-inside Model 12 16 gauge, that some of you, I'm sure, have seen. I call it my "bottom-of-the-duck-boat" special. It was a 2 9/16 incher, and I had Mike Orlen lengthen the chamber and forcing cone, and take the choke out to .007" constriction. I moved the front of the ejection port forward .065" myself. These modifications were made specifically to shoot any shot out there, and it has worked out well -- I have $260 into this gun including shipment to & from Mike Orlen. It's not particularly pretty, but it is sound, shoots anything I can put in it, and shoots well for me. The bore is unmarked and shiny. It's a great rain gun or backup gun and I don't need to worry about knocking it around, or reducing it's value cosmetically/functionally. That's the gun I've used at the last two of Jeff Wiemann's spring 16 gauge shoots at South St. Paul Rod & Gun Club.

Cheers!
Tony



Good info. Thanks.

I bought a 16 ga. model 12 basically the same reason you stated. It’s really in nice shape but I paid nothing for it and I planned to do the same just shoot it with what ever and use it for wood ducks this fall. I never did use it hunting this fall. Too many other guns to use. Lol. I use it all the time around my house for clays with the boys but it has been acting up lately. It won’t pump after the first shot. Really need to mess around with it to get it to cycle the second round. I need to get some one to look at it. Who’s a good model 12 guy? It did cross my mind to send it to Simmons for a rib and also to get it running smoothly.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
16gaDavis
PostPosted: Mon Feb 04, 2019 8:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

hey Eric , I'd leave Simmons alone - have had 2 bad experiences with them screwing up guns just like the one you've got ...I'd try either WRIGHTS ,6183578933 , or Nu-line , which bought out the Winchester 12 parts/barrels line back in the day . 314-441-4500 . I'd think they'd be more aligned the work you need .

_________________
Molly sez AArrrooooooah !
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Display posts from previous:   
All times are GMT - 7 Hours

View next topic
View previous topic
Page 2 of 2
Goto page Previous  1, 2
16ga.com Forum Index  ~  16ga. Guns

Post new topic   Reply to topic


 
Jump to:  

You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum




Powered by phpBB and NoseBleed v1.09