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mike koranda
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:17 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 24
Location: Duluth, MN

Has anyone noticed higher than expected velocities using Longshot Powder in 16 gauge loads listed in Ballistic Products Advantages 5th Edition?
My load was built exactly as directed by Load ID 100226-1801 on page 149:

Cheddite new primed hull
BP SG-16 wad plus OSC
Longshot powder 27 grains Hornady bushing number 414
Published velocity 1330 fps @ 7200 psi
Chronographed velocity 1540 fps @ ???psi

My scales and balances are accurate
My chronograph has proven to give velocity results 50 fps less than published
I have loaded 12 gauge loads with Longshot powder with no unexpected velocities

Thank you for any input on this strange occurrence. Mike
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number1wrench
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 23 Nov 2015
Posts: 37
Location: S. central TN

My Advantages Manual only goes back to 6th Edition and looking in 16ga and more current I don't find the load you designated. I have found other loads at ballisticproducts.com Advantages Manual that are no longer published. My assumption is that load was removed because it proved problem or inaccurate. Contact ballisticproducts.com and determine if it is still a viable load or has been retested and changed accordingly. Be safe and enjoy
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fn16ga
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:44 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2165
Location: Florida

Typical of BPI data , I don't trust it. Sounds like alot of powder . What is the weight of the shot .
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8W7M0
PostPosted: Sun Feb 24, 2019 9:05 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 06 Dec 2010
Posts: 11
Location: Central SD

Mike, you left out the "Maxi Nitro Card" on top of your powder. As the recipe calls...

2.75" Cheddite hull
Ched-209 primer
Longshot 27GRNS
NC16 + SG16
7/8 Lead
1330 fps @ 7200 psi

I've had my issues with BPI and their recipes too, but your missing something.
Still in their 9th Advantages Manual, bottom of page 257
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 3:59 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

Always approach all BPI load data with caution, cross reference if you can the loads they have listed.
Been my experience 8 out of 10 loads they publish are way overpressure, won't fit in the hull or just don't work as advertised.
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gjw
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 4:16 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Sep 2006
Posts: 863
Location: NoDak

16GAwaterfowler wrote:
Always approach all BPI load data with caution, cross reference if you can the loads they have listed.
Been my experience 8 out of 10 loads they publish are way overpressure, won't fit in the hull or just don't work as advertised.


+1. I don't trust their data either. I go with the manufacture data or Lymans (5th now).

Good Luck!

Greg

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:31 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

I loaded some steel shot ammo with Longshot as per BPI data, but backed the charge down by one grain of powder. It's a good thing I did, some of the primers pierced and case rim expansion ruined some of the hulls. I don't trust their figures.

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double vision
PostPosted: Mon Feb 25, 2019 9:48 am  Reply with quote
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Mike, I had a similar experience with data from that outfit. The load was supposed to be in the 1200-1250 realm and it clocked over 1600 fps. Thankfully I tested it in a stout repeater. Never again.
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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 1:07 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

WyoChukar wrote:
I loaded some steel shot ammo with Longshot as per BPI data, but backed the charge down by one grain of powder. It's a good thing I did, some of the primers pierced and case rim expansion ruined some of the hulls. I don't trust their figures.

Longshot in many instances is not the way to go with steel loads, it goes overpressure extremely fast and doesn't deliver the performance (peaks out pressure wise) STEEL powder does. I've had extremely good luck with STEEL and 16 gauge steel shot loads.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 11:09 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

The big thing I don't like about STEEL or Blue Dot is that it takes so much powder to do the same job. I have also seen STEEL exhibit the pressure spikes you describe, personally. I may start using the stuff though since I have so much room to spare in the hulls when I use Longshot.

One thing is for sure. BPI load data is great for proof testing.

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df
PostPosted: Tue Feb 26, 2019 5:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 01 Oct 2007
Posts: 962
Location: Minnesota

fn16ga wrote:
Typical of BPI data , I don't trust it. Sounds like alot of powder . What is the weight of the shot .


I don’t trust it either. I had one of their manuals. Loaded up some of their loads, and the stack heights were not even close to correct.
I tossed the manual, and would not use their data again.
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16gaDavis
PostPosted: Wed Feb 27, 2019 10:53 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 24 Jun 2013
Posts: 2062
Location: canandaigua - western n.y. (formerly deerhunter)

if ya'all notice , about 1/2 the loads in the archives has disappeared - maybe 1 28ga load left ... interesting

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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 2:31 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

WyoChukar wrote:
The big thing I don't like about STEEL or Blue Dot is that it takes so much powder to do the same job. I have also seen STEEL exhibit the pressure spikes you describe, personally. I may start using the stuff though since I have so much room to spare in the hulls when I use Longshot.

One thing is for sure. BPI load data is great for proof testing.

You'll get the pressure spikes with STEEL in most cases due to poor ignition from primer choices. I went through about every primer made before I settled on the CCI 209M for my steel shot loads with STEEL powder.
Here's how consistent velocities can be if you use the right primers.
405 grains steel shot in Federal hull with STEEL powder and CCI 209M primer
1564 fps
1532 fps
1523 fps
1520 fps
1585 fps
Five shot average 1544 fps Hi/Lo deviation 65 fps
I've been shooting this load for years and it works very well for me.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Feb 28, 2019 4:07 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2124
Location: Hudson,Wy

The spike I was referring to was more about major increases from tiny variations. When STEEL was introduced a very experienced friend loaded 3" 12 ga. ammo with #1 steel shot and it worked well. He then used #4 instead of #1 in the same charge bar and the tiny increase in charge weight due to smaller shot taking slightly less volume resulted in some scary loads.

Recoil levels were unreal and empties didn't want to extract smoothly. I gave them back to him and he tried one and came to the same conclusion. Prying the crimps open and removing 8 pellets then recrimping brought things back to normal and he never had a problem again. There were plenty of reports of STEEL loads being fussy shortly after it was released. Longshot may exhibit some of the same tendencies, but one of the reasons I use an adjustable charge bar is to avoid such problems caused by small variances when dealing with an unforgiving medium like steel shot in non cushioned wads. This may be why I haven't had issues with Longshot.

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16GAwaterfowler
PostPosted: Fri Mar 01, 2019 2:36 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 15 Dec 2005
Posts: 287
Location: missouri

WyoChukar wrote:
The spike I was referring to was more about major increases from tiny variations. When STEEL was introduced a very experienced friend loaded 3" 12 ga. ammo with #1 steel shot and it worked well. He then used #4 instead of #1 in the same charge bar and the tiny increase in charge weight due to smaller shot taking slightly less volume resulted in some scary loads.

Recoil levels were unreal and empties didn't want to extract smoothly. I gave them back to him and he tried one and came to the same conclusion. Prying the crimps open and removing 8 pellets then recrimping brought things back to normal and he never had a problem again. There were plenty of reports of STEEL loads being fussy shortly after it was released. Longshot may exhibit some of the same tendencies, but one of the reasons I use an adjustable charge bar is to avoid such problems caused by small variances when dealing with an unforgiving medium like steel shot in non cushioned wads. This may be why I haven't had issues with Longshot.

A lot of what your referring to was load recipes made by our friends at BPI not updating their recipes when Lot 2 of STEEL was found to be way to slow and Alliant changed the formula making STEEL faster burning. Some of it was Alliants fault as they really didn't put any warning out about the change, but BPI never did change their recipes till a few peoples guns were damaged beyond repair. One guy I know had the bolt blown out of his 10 gauge by one of BPI's loads that was not updated.
If your happy with Longshot than stick with it, I'm very happy with my STEEL powder 16 gauge loads and will keep on killing ducks with them.
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