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< 16ga. General Discussion ~ Pre 13 L.C. Smith 00 |
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Posted:
Mon May 06, 2019 1:00 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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That thin wall would have failed no matter how it ended up that thin, factory or otherwise. The thin spot looks to be the culprit and if it left the factory that way, then so be it. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Mon May 06, 2019 6:34 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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WyoChukar,
I very much doubt it left the Hunter Arms factory that way.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Tue May 07, 2019 8:51 am
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Joined: 13 Apr 2015
Posts: 75
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This is a very interesting conversation. I can only add this thought. Has anyone suggested looking at the other barrel to see if it has been altered? Can the barrel wall thickness be measured. |
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Posted:
Tue May 07, 2019 9:24 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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i believe that has been suggested over on double gun. Yes, wall thickness can be measured fairly easily with the proper tool, except where the ribs are. |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:12 pm
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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A few points of clarification
"Hunter Arms was still making standard frame and FW frame guns until 1945 when the Hunter Arms Company went out of business. The fire destroyed the Hunter Arms Company."
Hunter Arms Co. was purchased from the Gifford Simonds family by Marlin Firearms Co. in 1945, and renamed L.C. Smith Gun Co., Inc.
In January 1949 a section of the first floor of the factory collapsed, weakening the upper floors and destroying lots of equipment.
Some machinery and unfinished parts were then moved to the Marlin factory in New Haven, and a few guns were finished there; the last June, 1950.
There was no fire.
re: frames, from the FAQs on the LCSCA
The Featherweight (FW) frame was introduced with the 20 gauge gun in 1907, but it wasn't referred to as the "Featherweight” in company verbiage until 1909. The first 20 gauge recorded is a No. 2 SN 1003 July 12, 1907, but the first recorded 20 gauge as “FW” is a No. 00 SN 1104, December 4, 1907. Nine 20 gauge Specialty Grades, twenty two 20 gauge Ideals, and twelve 20 gauge Fields are recorded as having Regular weight frames, but none have been found. Only 11 16 gauge Specialty Grades, 28 16 gauge Ideals, and 88 (<1%) of 16 gauge Fields were R frame.
Featherweight frames 1907-1912 do not have a Fw stamp before the SN; 1912-1945 have a Fw prefix. The L.C. Smith Gun Company (1945-1950) prefix is FWS, and the 1968-1971 Marlin prefix is FWM.
The bar & action body of the FW frames are the same dimensions for each gauge. Width, height & firing pin spacing of the standing breech vary per gauge.
It is not known when the first 12 gauge guns were made using the FW frame, but pre-1913 12 gauge FWs are not uncommon. Unfortunately, production records prior to July 1918 did not record the frame size. From 1918 until production ended in 1950, 28% of 12 gauge Field Grades were built on the R frame, as were 38% of 12 gauge Skeet Specials (introduced in 1926). Interestingly, 68% of 12 gauge Specialty Grades were R frames.
The last R frame produced was a DeLuxe, SN 202977 finished on November 8, 1944. |
_________________ Drew Hause
http://sites.google.com/a/damascusknowledge.com/www/home |
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Posted:
Fri May 17, 2019 6:20 pm
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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RevDoc,
Good write up every thing factual, I will add this it, It is believed that the R frame Field grade guns were made clear up into the year 1945 when Hunter Arms went under.
Remember however lots of the Hunter Arms records were destroyed, not every thing can be documented, Bill Brophy only partially recovered the Hunter Arms sales Documents. What is now known is only part of the Hunter Arms actual records.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
Last edited by Pine Creek/Dave on Sun Jun 30, 2019 12:33 pm; edited 1 time in total _________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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Posted:
Fri May 17, 2019 8:23 pm
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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So I am guessing that those 88 field grade guns are indeed stamped "field" and not "00"? |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Sat May 18, 2019 4:52 am
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Member
Joined: 28 Dec 2005
Posts: 2016
Location: Glendale, AZ
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Posted:
Sat May 18, 2019 7:23 am
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Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 2126
Location: Hudson,Wy
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Please allow me to clarify. Those 88 field grade regular frame guns were made after 1913, correct? |
_________________ Only catch snowflakes on your tongue AFTER the birds fly south for the winter... |
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Posted:
Sat May 18, 2019 9:07 am
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Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2799
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa
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WyoChukar,
Yes and some unfinished guns were found in the Hunter Arms factory after the floor caved in and Hunter Arms went under. 1945 per Bill Brophy. However RevDoc is correct that the last one documented & Delivered was a Delux Gun Nov 8, 1944. Again Bill Brophy only recovered part of the Hunter Arms sales documentation from the trash.
The documents were given to the Cody Museum, for historical record keeping purposes.
Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man |
_________________ "L.C. Smith America's Best" - John Houchins
Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainers |
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