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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:24 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

John Singer wrote:
This is not rocket surgery.

Any 20, 16 or 12 gauge shotgun with an improved cylinder or modified choke using an ounce or more of 4, 5, or 6 lead shot at a muzzle velocity of 1200 or more fps will kill any well pointed pheasant that is in range (<40 yards) when the gun goes off.

If you want or need to use nontoxic shot use 4, 5, or 6 bismuth, or 2, 3, 4 steel.

If you shoot at pheasants at ranges greater than 40 yards, expect to miss many and expect it to be difficult to recover birds that are hit but not killed.


Well seeing how my best gunsmith has signed a non compete clause, just hoping that Clint does't screw up my best stick of wood that I paid $3K for. You I trust.

It is rocket science hell anyone could do it. Nuclear Engineering on the other hand...

Took a lot of years to get into some of best private lands in SD. The kingpin who has more than a dozen sections of land only allows 12 ga. pumps and O\U or SxS guns. He has seen a lot of birds shot over the years. I don't disagree with him. It is his sandbox and his rules.

Hard to beat 1 1/4 oz. of #5 at 1200 fps. Dead bird.

I hate steel. Was in Washington State when the mandate came out. And hasn't gotten much better since then. They push the velocity up to help it out. Here hold my gun while I go chase down a runner on the next section of land that we don't permission to hunt. Steel sucks. Unless you are shooting short shots with high velocity. Nah. Steel sucks. Period. Compared to lead.

You can spend time chasing crips or hunt birds. I and my friends prefer to pay extra on the shells to hunt birds. The hunt is free. For the most part. 45 minutes to an hour to chase down a crip runner? Hard pass after enough of them. When you could be hunting. A lot of people don't follow up after the shot. Believe you do though John.

I do have more than 10 pounds of HW 15 in loaded 12 and 20 shells but don't trust
BPI data for the 16. Not sure where it is going to end up in the 16. Already lost a molar to steel and have 2 more teeth that needs crowns. Did I mention that I hate steel?

But not sure the HW15 is the answer according to my dentist and dental surgery at Mayo Clinic. Would like to keep my teeth and they are doing their best to make sure that I do. I need to do my part also.
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John Singer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:11 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Cold Iron wrote:
John Singer wrote:
This is not rocket surgery.

Any 20, 16 or 12 gauge shotgun with an improved cylinder or modified choke using an ounce or more of 4, 5, or 6 lead shot at a muzzle velocity of 1200 or more fps will kill any well pointed pheasant that is in range (<40 yards) when the gun goes off.

If you want or need to use nontoxic shot use 4, 5, or 6 bismuth, or 2, 3, 4 steel.

If you shoot at pheasants at ranges greater than 40 yards, expect to miss many and expect it to be difficult to recover birds that are hit but not killed.


Well seeing how my best gunsmith has signed a non compete clause, just hoping that Clint does't screw up my best stick of wood that I paid $3K for. You I trust.

It is rocket science hell anyone could do it. Nuclear Engineering on the other hand...

Took a lot of years to get into some of best private lands in SD. The kingpin who has more than a dozen sections of land only allows 12 ga. pumps and O\U or SxS guns. He has seen a lot of birds shot over the years. I don't disagree with him. It is his sandbox and his rules.

Hard to beat 1 1/4 oz. of #5 at 1200 fps. Dead bird.

I hate steel. Was in Washington State when the mandate came out. And hasn't gotten much better since then. They push the velocity up to help it out. Here hold my gun while I go chase down a runner on the next section of land that we don't permission to hunt. Steel sucks. Unless you are shooting short shots with high velocity. Nah. Steel sucks. Period. Compared to lead.

You can spend time chasing crips or hunt birds. I and my friends prefer to pay extra on the shells to hunt birds. The hunt is free. For the most part. 45 minutes to an hour to chase down a crip runner? Hard pass after enough of them. When you could be hunting. A lot of people don't follow up after the shot. Believe you do though John.

I do have more than 10 pounds of HW 15 in loaded 12 and 20 shells but don't trust
BPI data for the 16. Not sure where it is going to end up in the 16. Already lost a molar to steel and have 2 more teeth that needs crowns. Did I mention that I hate steel?

But not sure the HW15 is the answer according to my dentist and dental surgery at Mayo Clinic. Would like to keep my teeth and they are doing their best to make sure that I do. I need to do my part also.


Ok. I made Clint show me your gun on Friday. It definitely has beautiful furniture.

I switched to nontoxic shot for all of my hunting a few years ago.

Now, I do not disagree with some of your assessment of steel shot. I have no trouble killing ducks and geese with steel.

Pheasants, on the other hand can be a challenge. I have killed a lot of pheasants with steel. However, pheasant are usually shot in the backside. This leads to three problems. First is limited penetration of the shot. Much of the pellet energy is absorbed by bone or the large gizzard. Secondly shot ends up in the meat where it can damage teeth. The third issue is that wounded pheasants are often very difficult to recover.

This past season, I purchased a good quantity of bismuth shotshells in both 16 and 12 gauge. I have used Hevi Shot, Kent, and Boss. I am quite impressed with the performance on birds. I have used sizes #6, #5, and #4 with great success.

Bismuth works very well and is much easier on teeth than either steel or HW.

If I was in the market for nontoxic shells for the upcoming pheasant season, I would order a case from Boss Shotshells this summer.

They allow the purchase of mixed cases in the off season.


https://bossshotshells.com/

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John Singer
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John Singer
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:26 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Here is an article from Phil Bourjaily. His experience with nontoxic pheasant loads mirrors my own.

https://www.fieldandstream.com/blogs/gun-nuts/2012/07/pheasants-and-steel/

Be sure to read the end where his wife tells him to use softer shot.

I switched from lead to steel for two reasons. First, many of the places that I hunt require nontoxic shot. Secondly, through much of my professional career (and now in my retirement gig) I have been exposed to lead and toxins. I wish to limit my exposure in the food that I eat.

I switched to bismuth for pheasant hunting because steel is hard to find in pheasant meat and can damage teeth.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 6:46 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1819
Location: Central ND

Cold Iron,

I can't say that I hate steel, but I don't like it especially in the 16.

Mostly because I have older shotguns and I really don't want to have a bunch of different loads for hunting.

Bismuth is the best option I have found. #5's kill pheasants just fine and mallards too on the rare days that I go duck hunting.......and I can use it in all my shotguns with no issue.

I have tried steel for pheasants in my 12 gauge guns.......just OK and only if I had to and I don't.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:12 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

MSM2019,

I agree I like the Bismuth shells for my old guns for Duck hunting, I limit the steel to my chrome lined newer guns. Have used the #7 Fiocchi for hunting Grouse, they do OK. I use my American Classic and German Best double guns most all the time to Grouse and Woodcock hunt however. I do like the Bismuth in places where the lead is not allowed, it does not wear my older guns as steel will do.

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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4setters
PostPosted: Mon Jun 15, 2020 2:19 pm  Reply with quote
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Joined: 19 Nov 2013
Posts: 381
Location: NW Arkansas

Over the years, I shot a fair number of pheasants with 16 gauge steel, mostly factory Federal/Remington loads in #4. It does a good job of killing pheasants over dogs--IF, and a big IF, shots are kept to no more than 30 yards. While 12 gauge steel payloads undoubtedly do better, IMO steel does not match up to lead, and the difference gets larger with each yard added to the shot. I do not look at steel as a good long range pheasant load, period.

The above also applies to ducks. Killed lots of mallards back in the day with 16 gauge steel (mostly #2), but only used it in green timber hunting where shots are usually relatively close, and not in open rice fields where shots are often long. Remember, crippled ducks are like pheasants, hard to chase down without a good retriever!

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