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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 2:21 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Central ND

I guess I am not very educated with, nor do I appreciate the different stock configurations as in straight grip, semi pistol grip and pistol grip.

Many folks think that the straight grip is what should be used for upland hunting.....why?

Straight stocks seem to me that they would increase felt recoil. I have not shot this style stock enough to be comfortable with it. Whenever I have tried that style of stock I am always very happy to hand it back to the owner.

While I do like the feel of a semi pistol grip and have and do shoot this style stock quite a lot, I guess I am missing what the advantage is over a pistol grip stock.

When I wrap all this stuff up, the shotguns that I shoot the best day in and day out, by a reasonable margin, are full pistol grip shotguns.

What am I overlooking?

Please understand, I think that some of these stocks and the actions they are attached to are gorgeous shotguns, but I have never been able to be comfortable shooting one.I am not making fun of or trying to start an argument. Just looking for the reason for the different stocks.

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justchris
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 3:28 pm  Reply with quote
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Location: FL

I think it all comes down to what you're comfortable with and hand size too.
Myself I like a full grip too, I've had a Belgium Browning Sweet 16 with the semi pistol or Prince of Wales grip that I loved but didn't shoot it or a Lightning Featherweight very well. (They just didn't feel right in my hand?)
I have a Citori 525 with the full pistol grip and shoot it good, my go to gun.
I also have a Remington 870 that I shoot good too.
I've never shot a gun with a straight english stock or double triggers but would be curious to try, and probably amusing at first...
Shocked
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Central ND

justchris,

I have a Hunter Special SxS. I don't shoot it too bad and the double triggers were not hard to get used to, at least on a Sporting Clays course. BUT not my favorite trigger setup.

I guess I can't appreciate the two different choke choices, after shooting a single barrel for so long. If I think about hunting situations, I can't think of one time where I would want more choke on the first shot and less choke for the second. ( I am actually kinda of partial to using one shot lol.)

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Chicago
PostPosted: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:48 pm  Reply with quote
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MSM2019 wrote:
justchris,

I have a Hunter Special SxS. I don't shoot it too bad and the double triggers were not hard to get used to, at least on a Sporting Clays course. BUT not my favorite trigger setup.

I guess I can't appreciate the two different choke choices, after shooting a single barrel for so long. If I think about hunting situations, I can't think of one time where I would want more choke on the first shot and less choke for the second. ( I am actually kinda of partial to using one shot lol.)


For an incoming bird I would think you would want more choke on the first shot. The idea of two triggers is really to allow you to choose the back trigger (more choke - usually) if a bird is further out than the right barrel allows. Or at least that is how I use my double trigger guns.

Good Hunting,
Mike
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 1:46 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 866
Location: Western WA

MSM2019
In theory, as expostulated by the Brits more than a century ago, the straight grip allows a faster and more natural mount along the line of sight than a pistol grip. They likened it to the instinctive ease of pointing a broomstick handle at a bird. This theory is predicated on a splinter grip as well. Some insist that a straight grip with a barrel without any forend at all is the ideal shooting configuration.

With SXS straight/splinter the forward hand is supposed to hold the barrels, not the forend.

This theory generally applies to SxS or single barrel break action guns only.

It has been noted with some validation that a straight grip with a large forend will shoot high, while a pistol grip with a splinter forend will shoot low. For this reason, O/U and repeaters are best suited for pistol grips since the lower barrel or magazine acts like a large forend.

Your gut feel and shooting success is a very good indicator of the proper configuration for you. I happen to perform much better with the Straight/splinter SXS for fast flushing birds in close quarters, and with pistol/full forend for passing shots and clay targets. Yes the straight grip recoils straight back and can feel harsh but the barrel doesn’t jump and second shot is faster. That is the logic behind the M-16 and most modern military assault rifles as well.

The only configuration that has been generally discarded today is the SxS with pistol/splinter and exaggerated drop that was so popular in America in the late 1800s. But who knows, it may come back in style again.

V/R
B.


Last edited by Brewster11 on Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
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tramroad28
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 2:09 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 20 Jul 2011
Posts: 614
Location: Ohio..where ruffed grouse were

Interesting how we all develop ideas of why....on many subjects.

I believe the straight grip was, first, little more than a way of reducing weight....then the idea of mount and, often, the rather odd idea that a straight grip helps the hand move to the second trigger more easily( did I say that was odd) were developed to make the idea appear wise....marketing, in other words.
I see little plus to a SG and it can, for some, be a bit uncomfortable.
One plus tho is giving a traditional look to a traditional scattergun....that, certainly sells.

The PG seems best, to me, as a way of absorbing a bit of recoil...first and most-est.
But really, I suspect it is simply the grip more folks are used to and with which they feel comfortable.
Some folks go for a tighter grip or even to the well-known etchen.....that 'un will lock in the trigger hand.

The prince-of-wales or shallow curve grip appeals most to me.....the esthetics on a sxs or o/u so equipped can be swell.
Otherwise, grip seems just one more fiddly bit that might enter most surely when dealing with hand size.

Matching of grip and foreend tho does seem to help us shoot.....not a believer in a splinter always with a SG but....a fine fitting balance of shapes and sizes between the two, one that gives us both confidence and pleasure, is a good goal.
What that amounts to.....is for each to determine rather than relying on what the marketers and experts tell us.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Fri Jan 15, 2021 4:22 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 816
Location: Central ND

I am right handed so.......When I mount a straight grip shotgun it 'feels' like I am rotating my hand clockwise, making my hand position feel 'unnatural'.

I guess I am missing how a straight grip shotgun comes up faster than any other style grip. If these shotguns come up faster because they are lighter, I got it. If it is faster because it is a straight grip.......


Please explain why it is a faster mount.

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Brewster11
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 11:25 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
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Quote:
I am missing how a straight grip shotgun comes up faster than any other style grip.

Basically because your hands can point a straight stick at an object faster than a crooked stick.
The proprioceptors in your hands and arms know where a straight stick is pointing without the eye telling it anything.

B.


Last edited by Brewster11 on Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:03 pm; edited 1 time in total
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 12:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
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Location: Central ND

OK thanks.

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top_cat
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:22 pm  Reply with quote
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Look at all the top competitors in International Skeet and Sporting Clays. They all shoot a pistol grip, some with quite exaggerated curves. When you do a quick point movement at a distance with your empty hand, your fingers fall into a natural pistol grip. A straight grip requires you to cock your wrist while mounting the gun while raising it to your cheek. Another place for something to go wrong.

My opinion - often in error, but never in doubt.

Tom
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Brewster11
PostPosted: Sat Jan 16, 2021 1:59 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 866
Location: Western WA

Quote:
They all shoot a pistol grip, some with quite exaggerated curves.

I see two reasons for that: First, they all shoot either O/U or repeaters, which per theory are best suited for pistol grips. Second, they know precisely where the targets are arriving from, so they know where to swing the gun. Absent those two factors and using SXS, a straight grip might be preferable.

V/R
B.
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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Sun Jan 31, 2021 8:56 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
Posts: 1752
Location: Hudson,Wy

Most of it is personal preference, and I do prefer straight grips. Never have I noticed any difference in recoil and I have converted several pistol grip guns to straight grip (most recently the Fox).

One beauty of a straight grip is that it fits more hands. Large hand or small, the hand goes where it naturally fits, not always the case with a pistol grip. I have used some pistol grips that felt cramped to me, even though my hands are of average size. You can shoot well with any of the configurations, so use what feels best.

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putz463
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:07 am  Reply with quote
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Great question MSM, besides appreciating the aesthetics of a sleek English stocked shotgun, as always the devils in the details, I find my Upland and/or low gun clay game guns (pretty much the same guns) that are prone to snap shots where there is little time to do much other than get the gun somewhere near my shoulder and pointed in the direction of the blurr the English stock, specifically the wrist area, only has 3 fingers on it Thumb, Index and Mid, and the gun/mount is less prone to cant as when I hunt or target shoot with pistol gripped guns. IMO after helping get the butt to my shoulder those 3 fingers are simply along for the ride to get the trigger pressed. When I'm "aiming" say a Trap gun I have time to factor in the extra possible interruption the Ring and Pinky can have on canting the gun. I know splitting hairs but it does factor into my appreciation of English stocked guns. FWIW; my softer pistol gripped guns, i.e. my Marlin 90, hunts and carries like a pistol grip gun with all 5 comfortably on the stock and then points a lot like an English gun when swung into battery. With the 870's my 5 fingers are always in contact with the pistol grip and often do influence cant in an awkward quick snap shot as in hunting Ducks from a canoe, yes, tiny details but they do influence my shooting. As WyoC mentioned, it washes out to personal preference but this is my take on your inquiry. Again, great "made me think" question.

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MSM2019
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2021 9:22 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
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Location: Central ND

putz463,

I have had and do have semi pistol grip shotguns, which I do shoot OK. I like that grip, as it feels natural.

When it comes down to it and I feel the need to shoot well, either hunting or sporting targets it is a full pistol grip. I don't cant the gun with any type of grip so that isn't an issue.

After reading all that has been posted and being really honest with my shooting, I have come to the opinion that some of this is an issue of physiology, fine motor skills, and what type of shotguns you choose to and have shot the most.

For hunting, I started with a pistol grip shotgun Mossberg 500, went to a Remington 1100 LT-20, then a Browning A5 Sweet 16 and finally to a Remington 1100-16. None short, none light and all with a pistol grip. On the target side Beretta Onyx and then to a Benelli Super Sport, same as above.

Currently I use the 1100-16 for both hunting and clay targets and the Benelli only for clay targets.

If I try to use any of the lighter, shorter shotguns with a different grip (semi pistol included) things go to mediocre.

I own 3 shotguns that I consistently shoot well, the 1100-16, the Benelli and the Onyx. The rest of my shotguns I shoot very inconsistently. I have put a lot of time in with a Citori 16, including an adjustable stock and putting all the other shotguns down. I just don't shoot it very well. The POI is exactly the same as the other 3....dead on and 60/40 high and both barrels shoot to the same POI.

It is VERY important to me that I shoot as well as possible when hunting. Last year I only had one runner and thankfully my young GSP found the rooster quickly. I hate the circus sideshows that winged birds can present. Not that I never wing or miss a bird, just that I want to keep that to a bare minimum.

So shooting a particular shotgun because of tradition or because of some other factor isn't in the cards for me. Either I can shoot it or I can't. If I can't, I use it for clays when it is strictly for fun.

Thanks for all the responses!

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WyoChukar
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:10 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 16 Jul 2015
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One thing that should be mentioned is muscle memory and, as Mark did mention, physiology. When I tried a straight grip for the first time it felt odd. After a week of shooting, I suddenly found that I liked it better. But I was only 19 then.

Why did it feel odd? I was a rifleman up to that point. I had just finished years of competition with heavy target rifles with vertical gripped stocks. However, rifle competition is all about inhibiting movement as much as possible. That's why we wore tight coats with very tight slings that went from the arm to the front of the rifle stock.

Wingshooting is the opposite, the idea is to promote free and fluid movement of the gun, smoothly. Well, the longer you are accustomed to a specific layout of gun, the more your body adapts to it over time (one more reason that people who own and use the same gun all of their life usually shoot it very well). The older a shooter gets and the more time he or she has spent with a specific configuration, the more their body refuses to change when something new is introduced, which is perfectly fine. If something works well and you try a different configuration that doesn't work for you, go back to what does.

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