16ga.com ~ View topic - Need 800-X Low Pressure Recipe

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Hey all, I'm looking for an alternative load for my standard LP load I use now ( I was able to score 8lbs of 800-X).

The components I want to use are:

Federal or Cheddite 2 3/4" hulls

Win 209, Cheddite 209 or Federal 209A

Z16 or similar wad

Looking for a psi of 7000 or less

Velocity of 1150 to 1200fps

Payload of 1 1/8oz

Let me know if you have a recipe I'm looking for.

Thanks so much!

Greg

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

gjw,

Not sure there is going to be a good load with those components.

I know that the spreadsheets have a BPI load of 23.0 grains using a Z-16. I sent in a similar load to Tom Armbrust and it came back in the 13,000 PSI range and over 1300 FPS.

To drop it down to 1150 to 1200 FPS it would be 19.0 grains or so and definitely not 7,000 PSI.

As a reference load:

Winchester/Cheddite hull
CCI209
24.0 Grains 800-X
Remington SP-16 wad
1 1/8 oz. lead shot

1324 FPS 10,700 PSI

Replacing the SP-16 with the Z-16 is the issue. That will be about a 3,000 PSI swing. The switch to a hotter primer will up the PSI also.....not sure how much but 800-X can be primer sensitive.

Maybe a 1 oz. load?

Right out of the Lyman 5th Edition.

Federal hull w/paper basewad
Winchester 209
23.5 grains 800-X
SG-16 wad
1 oz. leadshot

1280 FPS 7,500 PSI

It will perform similar in the Cheddite hull. If I had to guess the performance will drop slightly.

I love 800-X powder and I played with it a lot. I use it in my favorite 1 1/8 oz. load which is about all I use.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 863 Location: NoDak

Most loads with 800-X with 1 1/8 ounce of lead are quite high pressure and in the 1200 fps neighborhood and beyond. I take it you have been to the Hodgdon loading data site. I did find a 1190 fps, 1 1/8 oz. load purporting to be 8100 psi, but with a Rem SP16 wad, a Fed Hull and a CCI200M primer. However, almost all 1 1/8 oz loads in Fed hulls at around 1200 fps turned out to be over 9000, not dissimilar to Hodgdon's publishings.

I did find a load close to that 7000 psi requirement at 1170 fps in the Fed Hull with 19 grains of 800-X, either a Fed 209A or CCI209M, and the Rem SP16, but it is a 1 ounce load of lead shot. From load data for the 16 I have seen, I don't doubt you could get to everything you wanted in your load spec except 1 1/8 oz, as there are 1 oz. loads at about 7500 to 8500 psi with about 20.5 grains of 800-X, but they approach 1300 fps.

If 7000 psi is your limit, and 800-X is your powder, here's what I'd try -- and by that I mean have tested by Armbrust: New Cheddite hull with Cheddite primer. New hulls are smoother inside, and as far as I can see, likely to develop a certain level of external ballistics (higher muzzle velocity) with lower internal ballistics (lower peak pressure). Use the Gualandi SG-16 wad or Z-16. Use about 19 grains of 800-X, and 1 ounce of lead shot. Adjust the powder after your see the results from the ballistic test.

Then go ahead and put 1 1/8 ounce of shot in the same load or close to it. and adjust from there. Last resort would be the Remington SP primer.

Have you thought about why you want 1 1/8 ounce? Since it's likely an upland load you are after, being lead shot and all, is 1 1/8 ounce necessary. I can only think it would be if shot of about #4 was involved and you needed the pellet count. However, at 1150 to 1200 fps, #6 lead will do the job just about as far as a sensible upland game shot is concerned -- certainly beyond 35 yards -- and with 1 ounce, the pellet count in #6 should be plenty. Frankly, I like an ounce of #7's (NOT 7 1/2's) for that work, but that's just me.

In these ideas, I'm just truing to work with your 7000 psi limit. That peak pressure limit might be another thing to question, but I really can't, and you have your reasons.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1841 Location: Central ND

Max,

You are correct about using new hulls, but it is only worth 500 PSI give or take. IMHO 500 PSI isn't worth a look, because tomorrow when you test the same load it might be 200 PSI. Now if it was 2,000 PSI you are reducing some chamber pressure.

As I am sure you know, chamber pressures aren't exact they are about, maybe, sometimes averages. Mostly they are misleading....you know how that goes 10,000 PSI is OK Hooray....11,600 PSI is OMG it's gonna blow.

Joined: 22 May 2020 Posts: 268 Location: Ky

1970s DuPont 800x published data
Those are not fed209as they are fed 209

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1308 Location: Western WA

Concur w/ others. 1 oz and 22.5 gr 800-X is my preferred load, but will be well north of 9000. Not sure 7000 is feasible with 800-X and 1 1/8 oz.

What are you looking to use it for? 1 oz at 1250 is a stout load esp. in light guns, but will clobber anything inc waterfowl.

B.

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2125 Location: Hudson,Wy

Closest I have found so far is from an old IMR manual. Keep in mind that the pressures listed are LUP an not psi.

Federal Hi-Power hull
1 1/8 oz. lead
SP16 wad
CCI 209M
20.5 gr. 800-X
1190 fps
8,100 lup

In one ounce loads there is this:

Federal Hi-Power hull
1 oz. lead
R16 wad
CCI 109M
19 gr. 800-X
1165 fps
6,700 lup

Substituting the SP 16 wad with a filler (Cheerio?) in that 1 oz. load may be the hot ticket. Not sure how much pressure change would come with the pink clay buster wad, but my experience is that it won't be much. SG16 type wad may raise pressure a bit more, due to tighter fit/ less initial gas blow by upon ignition. These things can of course, be tested by Mr. Arbrust.