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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Tested load comes out over pressure |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 3:53 am
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Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Barkhamsted, CT
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I sent a couple of loads that I thought were going to be easily safe loads.
I was really testing the difference between the NS688 and the Fed209A primer.
Loads were in 1X Federal hulls, Claybuster 7/8 oz. wad, 17.5 gns. of Green Dot with 15/16 oz. of #9s. I sent 5 of each, with Federal 209A and NS688 primers.
Both came in over pressure. Quite substantially too.
I sent a 20 gauge with the Green Dot too and that was as expected. He also tested someone else's 16 gauge loads that same day and those were as expected.
Tom wants me to send him a known published book load. The only thing I can find, is a BPI published load with the SG 16 wad which I don't have but could get.
I do have a bag of real WAA16 wads, but there is very little data with that wad in Lyman's 4th and 5th.
Any suggestions, or should I just get some SG-16 wads?
I have SGS-16 on hand but those are not exactly the same.
Jim |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 4:54 am
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Joined: 09 Feb 2015
Posts: 828
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Jim you didn't say what the pressure were. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:02 am
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Jim, that's interesting and a good reminder to get loads tested if you are unsure. I pasted the following from and old post from a former member here who was a savvy reloader. I'm just putting here for additional info and not necessarily endorsing anything.
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"I had Armbrust test this one as a maximum load:
16ga Win Poly Formed
28 gm (1 ounce)
F209A
DR16
18.0 Gr Dot
1242 fps
10,800 psi
I expect any one change to a) less shot, b) milder primer, c) less powder to be in the direction of lower pressure.
I loaded 7/8 ounce with 17.7 grains in 3 different hulls with 5 different primers and the range of the average velocities for those 15 recipes was 1226-1259 fps.
My bread and butter straightwall load is 7/8 ounce with 15.5 grains Green Dot (my MEC #27)and F209A primer for right on 1200fps."
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 5:26 am
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Jim is your goal a 1 oz (15/16 etc.) load using Green Dot? |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:04 am
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Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Barkhamsted, CT
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I was fine with 15/16 oz. because that is what fit nicely.
The load with the Fed209A was over 14K and the one with NS688 was over 13K.
15/16 oz. will cycle my A5 as well, so no need to go over in my opinion.
I had no real goal other than comparing primers. This is a head scratcher. I assumed this load would have been in the 9000 psi range.
There are published loads with 19 grains of Green Dot with 1 oz. and 1 1/8 oz. with the Federal hull and primer. Only difference is the wad. I had less powder and shot.
Tom did mention that my crimp looked a little too deep, but nothing crazy.
I have shot a lot of this load with the W209 primer.
Jim |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:11 am
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Were the velocities higher than expected?
Yes, I'd lean toward the SG16 wad in the Federal hull fwiw. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:19 am
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Joined: 27 Oct 2017
Posts: 80
Location: Joliet, IL
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Here are links to the old Alliant manuals. http://www.castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant.html
This should give you some direction since green dot 1 oz loads are in there.
That is certainly surprising since 1oz, waa16, fed209a is listed as a safe load with a substantially higher powder drop than you list. So maybe some detective work is needed.....double check drops, old powder?, confirm scale with another scale?
I can't think a wad change would do that much to pressure, but what do I know!
Did you chrono these loads? |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:38 am
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Makintrax, that's a heckofa useful link. Thanks for posting it!
The current Alliant online data for the 16 gauge is next to nothing. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 6:48 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1854
Location: Central ND
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Gualandi (SG16 and SG16S) wads will probably produce more pressure than the Claybuster wad because they will seal better and are larger in diameter.
Not sure what the issue is but a wad change won't solve it. 3,000 PSI is something like 3 - 4 grains of powder, which is substantial.
17.5 grains should have been OK.
How deep were the crimps?
Mine are normally .060" to .065" for any 16 gauge load that I send in for testing.
Here is another thing you might want to do with Tom Armbrust. Send him 6 loads and have him disassemble one for verification. I always do, that let's someone else verify what is in the hull. Then there are no questions.
DO NOT send him a BPI load. They are NOT tested and will just complicate matters. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:00 am
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Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Barkhamsted, CT
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Where is that listed load with the WAA16? Oops found it already. 1995.
I agree, I do not want to send a BPI load.
Thanks for that Alliant link. I'll peruse through there.
I found 2 SP 16 wads. Not enough for testing though.
Anybody have a few SP16 wads they would give up?
Jim |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:13 am
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Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 757
Location: Mn.
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I have lots of SG16 wads it is my favorite wad for Federal and Cheddite hulls which is all I reload anymore. I likely will not run out of them in my remaining lifetime.
PM me your address and I will send you some.
Edit sorry looking at the 95 data see you were looking for SP16 I thought you mistyped SG16. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 9:55 am
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Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Barkhamsted, CT
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Cold Iron,
Thanks, but I can just buy the SG-16 wads.
I'd rather not because the only data is from BPI.
Jim |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:17 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1854
Location: Central ND
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jim18611865,
Contact Precision Reloading. They have data for all the wads they sell. All you have to do is ask.
Orders@precisionreloading.com |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 10:43 am
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Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1322
Location: Western WA
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Strange and troubling data. 1 oz with 17.5 GD in Feds is in the very heart of the 16ga load envelope. Other than checking your powder drop, the only other possibility that comes to mind is swollen Fed base wads, but that can take years to develop in a humid environment. Also, a loose crimp will generally reduce pressure in my loads, so possibly a severely tight crimp might do the opposite as Tom indicated.
B. |
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Posted:
Thu Jun 23, 2022 11:30 am
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Member
Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 205
Location: Barkhamsted, CT
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They were new hulls that were on the ground for 15 minutes tops.
I shot them a few weeks ago.
Jim |
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