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Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

My apologies for a non 16 ga question, but I know many of you shoot and load for other gages. I have managed to have come across 5 cases of the old Win AA CF 28 ga, and now have a couple hundred to load in my Christmas present of a Mec 600 jr in 28 ga. I have the old style pink Claybuster wad and have 12 lbs of 20/28. All the loads I can find are for the newer HS hull, and the gentleman at Alliant says they have no data for the old CF and 20/28. Do any of you have a load ?
I dont load hot and was looking for a 1200 fps +/- 50, 3/4 oz load, figuring somewhere around 13 to 13.r gr 20/28 might be good. I picked up a Dickinson 28 with 30" barrels this fall and it was a delight in the grouse woods.
I have not able to log in to my old 28 Ga Forum account that I havent used in years.
I do have other powders such as Universal, 7625, but wanted to use the 20/28.
Thanks

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2349 Location: West MI

https://www.shotgunworld.com/threads/winchester-aa-28-gauge-hull-cf.407694/

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

Thanks Putz, spent an hour or so this morning going over those threads. Getting over Covid--3rd time around, so not doing much today anyway, it is a mild case. I did get a pm from someone who had worked up a load and had it tested. He had to drop considerably less 20/28 to stay in guidelines. I'll try it but need to get some smaller bushings for the Mec.

If you look at all the loads published, etc, etc, 20/28 functions basically the same as Unique for the same charge, but it takes up less room -- it's more dense than Unique -- i.e. a given powder bushing will throw more weight of a denser powder. Universal, of course, performs very similarly to Unique. It is also more dense than Unique, but less dense than 20/28. I would expect you can sub 20/28 grain-for-grain with Unique in the 28 gauge AA-CF hull. I do, though mostly I use Win 540MS/HS-6 in the 28 CF hull. Herco also works great in the CF 28, as does 800-X, if you can get consistent powder charges of that very large-grained stuff.

When the AA-HS cases came out, the 20 and the 12 were very similar in volume and length to their previous WW-CF counterparts. This was not the situation with the HS hulls in 28 gauge, nor the .410. They were shorter, had straighter walls and flatter internal bases, and needed wads with larger diameter overpowder cups, and a shorter wad in the 28. Though designated 2 3/4 inch, the first HS 28's were only 65mm (2 9/16 inch) long, and the loads using Unique didn't really fit. Universal fit a little better. 20/28 came out within about a year or two of the HS 28's. I think Alliant designed 20/28 specifically to get around the problem we high volume skeet shooters were having with the new HS hull in progressive presses, and get us back to using an Alliant product.

Frankly, the 20 ga. AA's, both CF and HS are also marginal space-wise with skeet loads using Unique. Ironically, the answer was to use the Remington RXP20 wad in the AA-HS 20 hull and use the WAA20 wad in the more roomy Remington STS or Gameload 20's. That was the trick MEC Service would recommend to customers frustrated with their progressive 20 gauge loading presses. Alliant's 20/28 solved that problem, too, and allowed the use of the less costly WAA20 and it's Claybuster's clone. Remington Power Piston wads were (are?) relatively costly.

Winchester (Olin), of course, quickly added about a millimeter or so to the 28 gauge HS hull to make it crimp a little better -- that's the hull of today, with the underlined HS print on the hull -- as in "HS". This helped them compete with the 28 gauge STS hull, which loaded much the same as the old AA-CF 28, and was a much better-looking hull. Unfortunately, Remington somehow fouled up the plastic of the 28 gauge STS. It is a puzzle to me why the crimps of the STS in 28 and (.410) get floppy and split after about two reloads, while those of the 12 and the 20 STS's and Gameloads last forever. The AA-HS 28 will reload up to 10 times -- that's why it is the favorite of most high volume skeet shooters that reload.

The other problem with the STS 28 hull, especially on progressive reloaders, is their extremely tight and slightly short primer pockets, forcing one to use the much more costly Remington 209P or STS. I like using the Winchester 209 on all my target loads, and they are slightly longer and less tapered than the Remingtons. The first time I load a 28 gauge STS, I use a MEC 600 or 700 so I can cram that Winchester 209 in there. That eliminates the problem of re-priming these hulls in subsequent re-loadings. They'll still hold either a Winchester 209 or a Rem 209STS primer just fine after that. Though they don't last nearly as long, 28 gauge STS hulls make a much prettier load than either AA 28's, CF or HS, so I like them for hunting loads -- couple of re-loads and they're done.

Happy New Year!
Tony

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

Good info Tony, Thanks.

Member Joined: 31 Aug 2005 Posts: 1257 Location: Nebraska

Thanks for that, Tony, I'm going to have to check my Winchester 28s for the underlined HS as some of them are from the time I shot registered Skeet and a mix of AA and AAHS. I didn't reload back then but sold the empties, these remained from when I quit. I shot them at league Skeet then borrowed a press, loading both types using PC28 Blue wads. I made up the AA hulls with larger shot for hunting, the AAHS with 9s for Skeet.

It might be temporary, but the latest PC28 Blue wads to come in locally are not blue. They're marked as such on the cases, maybe the dye is in short supply?

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 823

Joined: 07 Sep 2011 Posts: 567 Location: wheeling, wv

Thanks Bill, I have used 20/28 in 16 ga RGL's with the DR16 wad, 7/8 oz shot, and 16gr 20/28 I believe. I t is a good low pressure load for vintage guns, even damascus. I still have a couple hundred loaded up and have a bag and a half of DR16's. Also load 3/4oz with that. It came off the spreadsheets that used to appear on this forum.