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John Singer
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 4:39 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Back in 1976, when I was 15 years old, the high school library had a copy of Woolner's book, Timberdoodle.

My family had just moved to northern Michigan and I read the book cover to cover. I started grouse and woodcock hunting that year. I had read about his modified Model 59 Winchester at the time and always wanted one.

I finally obtained my first one about 15 years ago. I have owned 3. I still have one. I have both a 28" modified barrel and a 24" cylinder bore barrel.

The cylinder bore barrel is excellent for grouse, woodcock, and dove hunting.

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Lloyd3
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 9:33 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1366
Location: Denver, Colorado

Cold Iron: I ordered the book you mentioned earlier. I am familiar with Gordan Gullion's work (I think I used to own it but lent it out). As far as retirement goes...I turned 65 on a Tuesday and started full-time work the Wednesday after for the Federal Government (USEPA). It's a long story and challenges abound in all of that (keeping my trap shut will be tough) but at least I won't be bored this winter.

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3birddogs
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 1:06 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 07 Sep 2011
Posts: 567
Location: wheeling, wv

Lloyd3, I met Gordon Gullion back in 1989, I believe, at the Sawmill Inn in Minnesota. I was a guide for the National Grouse and Woodcock Hunt that year. We had a couple drinks along with dear departed friend Bill Goudy.
I have the book also.

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Pine Creek/Dave
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 3:00 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Mar 2017
Posts: 2787
Location: Endless Mountains of Pa

Lloyd3,

Bill Palmer Pa's real Grouse Biologist introduced me to GG many years ago at one of the Ruffed Grouse HQ banquets. Gordon was a serious thinker and very down to earth about how to manage Grouse populations. We got along very well back in the day and I found his views on Grouse Management right on the money, especially for that time. Between John Alden Knight and GG actual Grouse and Woodcock Biology entered the modern era. I truly appreciated his talks, he was not a pushy man, and his views were backed up by the studies he had done over many years. Listening to GG & Bill Palmer talk was an education in Grouse management its self.

all the Best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Thu Jan 26, 2023 7:14 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

Lloyd3 wrote:
Cold Iron: I ordered the book you mentioned earlier. I am familiar with Gordan Gullion's work (I think I used to own it but lent it out). As far as retirement goes...I turned 65 on a Tuesday and started full-time work the Wednesday after for the Federal Government (USEPA). It's a long story and challenges abound in all of that (keeping my trap shut will be tough) but at least I won't be bored this winter.


Well happy belated Birthday to you! US EPA?! I wish you well in your endeavor to remain quiet Laughing Seriously though I do wish you well. I have 4.5 months to go before I hit 65.

You are as bad as I am, retired from the Navy on a Friday and started work in civland on the following Monday. With 30 days paid leave. I plan on working a few more years and found out last month that I have no choice and have to start drawing pension earned from start of current job until 2014 on the month I turn 65. Even if I don't want to. And all types of other things change. Some good, some not so good. But have a good job with good pay and benefits so it is hard to punch out especially right now. But have warned them don't upset because you know that I CAN retire if I want to.

I'm so ready for winter to be over already.
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putz463
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 2:45 am  Reply with quote
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Joined: 06 Oct 2007
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Location: West MI

I'm not, winter just got back here & late Goose split opens in a few days, can't wait....

Another shameless Woolner disciple here, not a 59 but my 48 Brushog fits the bill just fine, fits/points so intuitively doesn't even have a front bead...


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John Singer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:31 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

A Woolnerized Winchester Model 59 is as ugly as homemade sin.

In addition to removing the pistol grip and cutting down the barrel, he completely removed the forearm wood and replaced the bolt attaching the barrel to the magazine tube.

It is something that I just cannot get myself to do.

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John Singer
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 5:47 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 03 Sep 2014
Posts: 398
Location: Rochester, MN

Frank Woolner served in the European theater in a Recon unit of the Third Armored Division during WWII. He is one of the primary authors of the Division's combat history: SpearHead in the West.

My father was a combat engineer in the 3rd AD. As a child, I remember reading his copy of that book. My father had lent it to a friend years ago and never got it back. A couple of years ago, my daughter gave me a copy for Christmas.

Check out the photo of Frank Woolner in this link.

https://www.3ad.com/history/wwll/woolner.index.htm

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madtrapper143
PostPosted: Fri Jan 27, 2023 6:35 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Jan 2007
Posts: 82
Location: Steep Rock Lake, North Western Ontario

John Singer wrote:
A Woolnerized Winchester Model 59 is as ugly as homemade sin.

In addition to removing the pistol grip and cutting down the barrel, he completely removed the forearm wood and replaced the bolt attaching the barrel to the magazine tube.

It is something that I just cannot get myself to do.


I agree 100%. The guns handle so well from the factory and weigh just over 6 pounds I can see no real advantage to Woolnerizing them. I guess if you have a fixed FULL or MOD a barrel trim to eliminate choke to CYL would be advantageous for grouse and wood cock hunting.
Both of mine are 26" one fixed IMP CYL and other has the Winlite choke system. They work very well.
Darryl

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Lloyd3
PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2023 10:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 17 Jan 2014
Posts: 1366
Location: Denver, Colorado

Cold Iron: Got that book you recommended and it is excellent. I don't know how I missed it over the years. I think I confused it with another book that Gordan Gullion had contributed to (The Wildlife Series - The Ruffed Grouse), it's pictured in your collection of books posted earlier here. The "North Shore" book was published by Willow Creek in 1984, the "Wildlife Series" book was published by Stackpole in 1989. The later book is about 3 times bigger (longer) and delves much more deeply in bird physiology, food types, and predation cycles and is a bit harder to read. For the average person its too-much information (written by biologists for biologists and possibly game-managers).

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Bill K
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 10:52 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2014
Posts: 253
Location: North Shore of Boston

Someone happen to mention in one of the posts about someone "Woolnerizing' a Winchester model 59 - not sure if they were referring to me, but I did a few years back and recall writing about it back then.

A 'Woolnerized' Winchester model 59 is bar-none the fastest handling upland gun there is.

A grew up watching Frank and his brother on television, and I was hooked then.

I wasn't able to find a model 59 until I was in my 60s, and customized it according to his description in his book Grouse and Grouse Hunting - and I'll tell you that doing such was a leap of faith. But it was well worth it !

I took a lot of birds with that gun, and got the attention of a lot of people in the process.

I just ordered a Benelli Ultra Light 12 ga with a 24" barrel which is the modern day equivalent of a Woolnerized '59 - the only thing it doesn't have is an English style straight-stock. I've been itching to compare the two

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Bill K
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Browning New A5 Sweet Sixteen circa 2019
Browning Citori Upland 16 GA circa 2014
Darne R10 1962
Browning Sweet Sixteen 16 GA circa 1957
Savage Fox Sterlingworth 16 GA circa 1934
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FallCreekFan
PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2023 3:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 30 Sep 2019
Posts: 136
Location: Colorado

Used to live in Woolner's neck of the woods. One of my favorite paintings is of the grouse woods around there back in the 1880's. It was done by Edwin Anson (yes, son of THAT Anson) in 1883.

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Cold Iron
PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2023 8:38 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 09 Mar 2016
Posts: 746
Location: Mn.

Lloyd I thought you would appreciate that book and am glad that you do Very Happy

Bill I do believe it was you that I was thinking of reading of your 'Woolnerized' Winchester model 59 some time back on here.

I posted a picture of my modified A5 Sweet 16 earlier in this thread. I had the barrel cut down to 23" on it and now it is the same length as my Ithaca 37 26" 16 ga. Here it is with my Benelli Ultralight 12 ga. with 26" bbl. they are both the same length as well.



I think you will like your BUL, I use mine in SD for pheasant hunting.

That steep radius grip on the A5 was just that, steep. So had UncleDanFan reshape it to how Browning should have. They have since came out with a proper grip model, it was about time. Have no regrets having Mark do mine however.

It is now a proper grouse gun. One of many that I own, it does get put into rotation.



Double Trouble had Briley do the same done to his A5 but had his stock done with a straight English grip.

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Shorebird
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 31

Pine Creek/Dave wrote:
Lloyd3,

Woolner was definitely not a traditional Grouse hunter of his day, some of his writing I loved, some of his ideas, like using a semi-auto in the Grouse woods, not so much.

all the best,

Pine Creek Dave
L.C. Smith Man


What's wrong with using a semi-auto for grouse or any other game for that matter?
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Shorebird
PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2023 7:33 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 28 Mar 2010
Posts: 31

delete


Last edited by Shorebird on Mon Feb 06, 2023 9:34 pm; edited 2 times in total
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