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Joined: 28 Mar 2008 Posts: 1460 Location: Eagle, Nebraska

If still after a flushing dog, the Boykin would be hard to beat.
They are not docile, by any stretch, very playful, and a bit of onery streak in them, but are affectionate, good house dog and can be real demons in the field. Heart of a big lab.

Gentlemen,

My choice here at Pine Creek Grouse Dog Trainer would be for the Boykin or the Ryglen, both exceptional gun dogs. My Brother owned 2 Boykins that were exceptional dogs in the Grouse woods and Pheasant fields. They hunted with my GSP and did a fantastic job!

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

Well, for what it's worth I picked up a new Border collie two weeks ago. He's 12 months old and maybe 20 lbs. My dog before Rusty (who is more standard size at about 48 lbs.) was also a smaller Border collie. She was a bird finding machine.

However, when I compare her performance to Rusty's I find a few noteworthy differences based on size that apply well to other breeds. The smaller dog works a lot harder in thick cover like cattails, but can weasel under briars and thickets. Small frame dogs seem to have fewer joint issues, age slower, and live longer (another generalization). It is nice to have a dog that can curl up between two hunters on the bench seat of a pickup. If ever you encounter a disaster like a rattlesnake bite, a small dog can be carried a lot easier, perhaps even in your bird bag, as you head off the mountain to the see the vet. Dog food bills are much lower. Retrieving geese...well that just gets plain entertaining with a small dog.

Realize, that a Border collie is not everything man's bird dog but they do train up easy and have good house manners. They have a ton of energy and drive, but there is an "off switch" when they know it's not play/ work time.

That said, there are plenty of small breeds that traditionally are sporting dogs. Cockers and Boykin's rank near the top of the list and I know people who are getting superb results from both. Springers are a tad larger and I have seen a few grow well into the medium size range. Somebody mentioned a small Munsterlander and those are a breed that certainly deserve more recognition than they get. One friend has a small Munsterlander that he compares his other dogs to. He calls Dax his "gold standard".

Overall I think you will find that a smaller dog is a very nice choice in the field and at home, with the added benefit of a dog that probably won't need to be buried nearly as soon. That last detail is one of the reasons I stick with Border collies; they live a long time. One buddy had one live 23 years and it was still pretty spunky at 20. So far I haven't been quite that fortunate, but I also haven't said good bye to my best friend at age 7 or 8 either.

Look at a lot of dogs, pick one, and let us know how it turns out.

WyoChukar,

Garhart your buddy with the Small Munsterlander is absolutely correct, our Small Munsterlander was the gold standard hunting dog also. If I had to choose a gun dog to put food on the table all the time, it would be Sampson our male Small Munsterlander, he was a hunting machine for sure, guarded the log cabin training facility and kept our main home safe also. World class gun dog, I even shot a Turkey with him when he was over 10 years old, he retrieved it to hand. Pointed and flushed the Turkey on command, one of my fondest memories, right in our own pine forest.
Sampson was the same size as your Border Collie Rusty, a little larger maybe and I never considered him a small gun dog in any way. He was a great dog in the snow, pointed many Grouse under the snow, I do miss him badly. He passed away at 14 years old.

all the best

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 08 May 2018 Posts: 196

I have a springer spaniel about 2 and 1/2 years old and was easy to train to get her to do what I want.I keep her within 20 yards if she starts to run big I give the command to far and she comes back in range.She does a great job retrieving the pheasants.Being a flusher I have learned to always be ready and I work her into the wind.My buddy has 2 German shorthair and I noticed on pen raised birds half the time when we flushed them they would not get high in the air and fly a foot off the ground but when we took my dog out the birds would flush like wild birds and I don’t get i it.you will get a lot of good info here as I did from other members.what ever dog you get will just be a lot of fun so enjoy.

Over the decades in dove fields and beyond, I've seen a shift in the lowcountry of Ga and SC from labs, to Boykins and now the dog du jour is the English Cocker. I know some diehard Boykin lovers, but the EC folks, some of which went from labs to Boykins, can't say enough good about the EC. Pint sized dynamos on a dove field and I know some woodcockers who are very successful with them as a flushing dog. I'm a diehard Brittany man with two AB's, one 12.5 and the other 9. It was time to get another dog and in less than five weeks will pick up a French Brittany female. If my field activity was restricted to retrieving doves, as it is with some friends, it would be an EC. I've also seen them work as retrievers on quail that were pointed over EPs. Little lightning streaks on retrieves at about 25 lbs....Gil

Joined: 26 Nov 2020 Posts: 33

French Britts are worth a look if you decide to venture into the pointy dog venue.