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ole_270
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 10:56 am  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 147
Location: SE Ks

Bored waiting for bird season and was puttering around the reload room. Since Universal isn't available I started looking at the files I downloaded before the Yahoo site went away for 1 oz load options. Spotted a couple I was a bit suspicious of stack height and powder migration on, but decided to try WSF. Supposedly a couple loads from Lyman #4 were Federal hull, 21-WSF,W209,SG16, and 1 oz shot. Listed as 1165 fps, 9700 psi. Another showed Fed hull, 22-WCF,W209, WAA16, 1 oz, 1227 fps, 7500 psi.
My Lyman #5 lists Fed hull, 24-WSF, W209,Rem SP-16, 1 oz @ 1296 and 8600.
Being suspicious of the powder migration and out of empty Fed hulls at the moment, I loaded a Cheddite hull, Cheddite primer, 22-WSF, and a SG-16 with 1 oz 7 1/2s. Yep, stack height was way off, a good sized bean in the shot cup brought the crimp up to normal.
Dug out the ProChronograph and set up to try it out. Bright and sunny, we're in the middle of another week of 100+ temps. Used my Dickinson Estate 28" SxS with a IC choke tube. Shot from 3 feet or so and the result showed 1353. Figured it must be a misread or something. Loaded another and got 1361. Wow, thought the chronograph must be off, so I tried my normal clay target load of the old style herters cheddite case, cheddite primer, 16 gr International, DR-16 wad, and 7/8 oz 8s. Got 1182, right about where it should be.
Whats the deal with all the published loads that are way off on actual results? Are they older trials and current powder has changed? That doesn't even bring up the stack height issues.

Edit to add, 12 ga field loads I tested last fall came out fairly close to the data files.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 12:42 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1739
Location: Central ND

Nothing is wrong, you just used a Gualandi wad that seals. All that other data is using the SP16 wads that fit in a straight wall, something like throwing a hot dog down a hallway.

I had that happen with another wad that Cheddite used to make that sealed a lot like the SG16. I picked up 100 FPS and about 2,500 PSI over the SP16. That load with the Cheddite wad was tested by Tom Armbrust.

It isn't the powder. It's not the data. It's the wad and...... you are also using a Cheddite primer which tends to be a bit hotter than the Winchester in certain loads and you have also changed the hull. That's a lot of changes.

How deep is the crimp?

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ole_270
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:51 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 147
Location: SE Ks

Actually, the one load listed above showed the SG-16 wad with 21-WCF at 1165fps and 9700 psi. If I remember right the cheddite hull has a slight amount more room than the federal so I was thinking I had some leaway on the load.
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ole_270
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:01 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 147
Location: SE Ks

Crimp was only around .035-.040.
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MSM2019
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 3:31 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1739
Location: Central ND

Here's the thing about straight wall hulls, not all the time, but many times, the perceived volume difference doesn't matter. The velocity is predicated mostly on the amount of powder gas. Other things matter, but the amount of powder gas is king.

That primer swap isn't a equal swap in many loads. The Cheddite acts hotter than the Winchester more times than not.

I do quite a bit of chronographing and I haven't seen the Winchester ever act as hot as the Cheddite. Sometimes it's worth 5 FPS sometimes 35 FPS. The other side of that is I have rarely seen the Cheddite produce a lower EV and Sd.

The thing that bothers me is that the velocity is so much different......Of course that data is about 30 years old and things have a way of changing.....Green Dot has been another head scratcher.

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Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts.
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ole_270
PostPosted: Sun Aug 20, 2023 5:32 pm  Reply with quote



Joined: 13 Oct 2015
Posts: 147
Location: SE Ks

I understand your point, I rarely freelance loads but I used the Cheddite primer to save the few winchesters I have on hand for hunting.
With the data showing the fed hill and w209 , and SG-16 giving 1165 and 9700 I thought I had plenty of room to try the Cheddite hull and primer without it going too high. Oh well, Iíve still got about 4 lbs of Universal, some 800x, Longshot and Blue Dot. Those last three are better suited to 1 1/8 oz loads, but hopefully Universal will come back before I run out
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