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Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1844 Location: Central ND

I know this is the right place to ask this.

What is the difference between an L.C. Smith, a Hunter Arms Fulton and a Hunter Arms Hunter Special, since they were all made by Hunter Arms except for the early L.C. Smith years until 1889. (I think that's what I read.)

My reason for asking is I have a Hunter Arms Hunter Special and I am curious about such things.

Does anyone have one of the early L.C. Smith shotguns made under the Baker name?

MSM2019,

The L.C. Smith/Hunter Arms double guns are Side Lock double guns, some of the employees of Hunter Arms approached John Hunter Sr and requested that they be allowed to make Box Lock double guns to compete with other American made Box Lock double guns, John Hunter Sr then started producing both the Hunter Arms Fulton and the Hunter Special. These Box lock guns were to compete with the cheaper made guns of other companies. In reality they are well made box lock guns, but no where near the engineering of the L.C. Smith Side Lock guns.

I have no L.C. Smith Baker original guns. I would like to own an original 16 gauge Baker gun some day.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1844 Location: Central ND

Are all L.C. Smith shotguns sidelock?

MSM2019,
L.C.Smith also made Hammer Guns, both Hunter Arms and the original L.C. Smith Company. The Hammer Guns have external Hammers that have to be cocked before firing, some very nice double guns that I love to Grouse & Woodcock hunt with. IMO the most sporting way to bird hunt.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man

Check out "Shotguns" here
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=0&club_id=43784

The FAQs
https://lcsca.clubexpress.com/content.aspx?page_id=274&club_id=43784

Hunter Arms Fulton Guns here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BrDPhUeeezjPGmb0zTxdp4ic6LcmKiR-WJQiTqfS07I/edit

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1844 Location: Central ND

Thanks Dave and Drew.

I see where I was getting a bit confused. I read somewhere that the Hunter Special has the L.C. Smith rotary bolt lock up. I read that as, the Hunter Special was just a lower grade of one of L.C. Smith models. In the info the Drew attached to his post it is clear that rotary bolt in the Hunter Special is the only part that is similar to an L.C. Smith.

Joined: 30 Sep 2019 Posts: 145 Location: Colorado

“Does anyone have one of the early L.C. Smith shotguns made under the Baker name?”

Yes…sorta…but its actually the opposite. A 32” 10ga Baker hammer gun made under the L.C. Smith name. On the top rib is engraved:

“L.C. Smith, Maker of Baker Gun Syracuse N.Y.”

L.C. wasn’t a “gun guy” (that was Baker) but he was a wealthy and well connected businessman who bought out the interests of William Henry Baker and L.C.’s brother, Leroy, in 1880. (They moved to Ithaca NY and formed what became Ithaca). He then hired Alexander Brown to be his gun designer and plant manager and from that arrangement flowed what we know of as the “Elsies”. During the interim years before the first of these guns came out he continued making the Baker doubles up through 1883. The best estimate that I’ve seen is that LC made 8305 Bakers. However, since the production numbers are all over the place, that may be fairly accurate… or not.

More about W.H. Baker here
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1_p_bo1ug6PWC3UiZdRtco_nvWjYmS-Ed3nbIzI_iy1A/edit

Joined: 16 Jul 2015 Posts: 2126 Location: Hudson,Wy

I have been inside L.C. Smith (both pre 13 and later models) and the Hunter Arms Fulton. The inner workings of the Smith are far better made. The guts of the Fulton remind me of a Jr. High school shop project at best. I resurrected one one from the dead for a friend and it took a good bit of hand work to fix the crudely filed parts inside.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 1844 Location: Central ND

Wyochukar,

Having never had a SxS apart before I got the Hunter Special, I have the same opinion. It's rough. As if some of the parts were filed with a piece of concrete.

Gentlemen,

When the employees of Hunter Arms/L.C. Smith approached John Hunter Sr about making a Box Lock Hunter Arms double gun John was very apprehensive about building the guns. It took a while to convince him to actually build the guns. He finally gave into making the guns with the proviso that the guns would be very inexpensive to make and not in any way compete with their own Side Lock L.C. Smith double guns. He was also concerned that this inexpensive gun might tarnish the Hunter Arms high grade quality reputation. The employees finally won him over by promising that the Box Lock guns would only complete with other inexpensive low cost Box Lock guns of other gun manufacturers. The end result was these Box Lock guns were mainly made for youngsters and sportsman who could not afford a better gun. They did sell quite a few of them however, finding one in pristine condition today is tough. John Hunter Sr never really wanted to build the Box Lock double guns. Leroy Smith however did want to build a quality Box Lock gun and did so as a partner in the Ithaca Gun Company and was granted the right to use the modified Brown Rotary Bolt on some of the early Ithaca double gun.

all the best,

Pine Creek/Dave
L.C. Smith Man