Author |
Message |
< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ need a good, functioning 2.5" load for my A-5 |
|
Posted:
Sun Mar 10, 2024 8:09 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 148
Location: High Desert of SoCal
|
|
Friends, I have an A- dating back to 1920. This is a Belgian model so technically it's an FN not a Browning. Anyway, I need a good functioning load, anything between 7/8 - 1 oz. Longshot is out. It just won't function the gun at reasonable pressures.
I have a boatload of once fired Federal hulls I can cut down. Likewise, I have plenty of Cheddite hulls I can cut. I need a suggested powder and wad combo. I can roll crimp of I can fold, whichever is needed. I just want a load that will cycle the gun. |
_________________ R J Talley
James Madison Fellow |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 5:43 am
|
|
|
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1927
Location: Central ND
|
|
Having owned an Auto-5, forget 7/8 oz. You may get one to work, but it may be a struggle. Although I am sure there are some folks that have been successful using a light load in an Auto-5.
What powder you use has nothing to do with cycling the shotgun. You have to use a load that provides enough velocity and payload to cycle the action. Chamber pressure isn't a piece of cycling an Auto-5. Recoil is.
IMHO you want to use a load at minimum 1 oz. @ 1200 FPS. 1,250 FPS would be better and setting the rings to light loads with a drop or two of light oil on the magazine tube will get it done. If you must use a 7/8 oz. load the velocity will need to be closer to 1300 FPS and maybe higher.
Hodgdon has plenty of 1 oz. loads using Universal and W572 that will get the job done easily. I would use a standard 2 3/4" 1 oz. load with the hull cut to 2 1/2" and roll crimped.
Please understand that the old Auto-5's were meant for hunting. 7/8 oz. loads in the 16 weren't an option back then. Those old guns were meant to be fed stout 1 oz. - 1 1/8 oz. and even 1 1/4 oz. loads.
Understand that light recoil and Auto-5 shotguns don't go together. It's the recoil that makes them work.
If it is an older shotgun that hasn't been apart in years, a complete disassembly, cleaning and fresh lubrication will help. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 9:50 am
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3207
Location: NCWa
|
|
It's been several decades since i fired an A-5, but I recall the cycling could be adjusted by various treatments to the magazine tube and the ring on it- I forget the name. One way for the ring was for mag loads, flipped around was for target loads, but also a slick lubrication on the tube would ease the cycling for light loads.
With 1911 ACPs the cycling was adjusted by having different strength recoil springs. I wonder if anyone makes a light target load spring for the A-5? |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:06 am
|
|
|
Joined: 27 Jan 2016
Posts: 511
Location: Oswego, Kansas
|
|
I can agree with MSM on using 7/8oz loads in a A-5. I have a Rem M11 16ga that I have shot a bunch in the past and it needed 1oz loads to cycle reliably. I have used Federal Hulls cut down and roll crimped and they work well. |
_________________ Sweet sixteen forever
LC Smith Field Grade
LC Smith Ideal Grade
CZ Ringneck
Win. Model 12
Rem M11
Stevens 235
Hunter Arms Fulton |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 10:41 am
|
|
|
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1359
Location: Western WA
|
|
OK hold on everyone. Yes a 2 1/2” A5 can be fussy with 7/8 oz loads…IF IT HASN’T BEEN CLEANED IN A HUNDRED YEARS!!
I’m just saying that after I dissembled the cranky old filthy dirty beat up gun show 2 1/2” A5 down to the tiny pins and springs and needles, and soaked everything in solvent then wirebrushed everything until my eyes hurt from the reflection, and then scooped out huge globs of grimy black gunk jam packed inside the receiver and then hosed down everything inside and out, the gun happily gobbles up little 7/8 loads like candy and that’s with the new stiff mag spring setting on HEAVY, and the recoil STILL stings my middle finger!! It’s crying for even LIGHTER loads!
Have fun, they are AWESOME guns,
B.
POST EDIT: Seriously, the problem is the grit gets forced into the tiny cavities, holes, slots, hollows, etc. which must be thoroughly cleaned out and polished with dental picks, pipe cleaners, copper wires and the like. It takes time and patience. |
Last edited by Brewster11 on Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:01 am
|
|
|
Joined: 21 Mar 2019
Posts: 529
Location: Texas
|
|
Brewster11 wrote: |
OK hold on everyone. Yes a 2 1/2” A5 can be fussy with 7/8 oz loads…IF IT HASN’T BEEN CLEANED IN A HUNDRED YEARS!!
I’m just saying that after I dissembled the cranky old filthy dirty beat up gun show 2 1/2” A5 down to the tiny pins and springs and needles, and soaked everything in solvent then wirebrushed everything until my eyes hurt from the reflection, and then scooped out huge globs of grimy black gunk jam packed inside the receiver and then hosed down everything inside and out, the gun happily gobbles up little 7/8 loads like candy and that’s with the new stiff mag spring setting on HEAVY, and the recoil STILL stings my middle finger!! It’s crying for even LIGHTER loads!
Have fun, they are AWESOME guns,
B.
|
Thank you for being that guy first. Mine all cycle 7/8 oz and some of the softest shooting might I add. New to me always get cleaned and springs replaced no matter what. Then lubed correctly. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 11:08 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2183
Location: Florida
|
|
RGuill96971 wrote: |
Brewster11 wrote: |
OK hold on everyone. Yes a 2 1/2” A5 can be fussy with 7/8 oz loads…IF IT HASN’T BEEN CLEANED IN A HUNDRED YEARS!!
I’m just saying that after I dissembled the cranky old filthy dirty beat up gun show 2 1/2” A5 down to the tiny pins and springs and needles, and soaked everything in solvent then wirebrushed everything until my eyes hurt from the reflection, and then scooped out huge globs of grimy black gunk jam packed inside the receiver and then hosed down everything inside and out, the gun happily gobbles up little 7/8 loads like candy and that’s with the new stiff mag spring setting on HEAVY, and the recoil STILL stings my middle finger!! It’s crying for even LIGHTER loads!
Have fun, they are AWESOME guns,
B.
|
Thank you for being that guy first. Mine all cycle 7/8 oz and some of the softest shooting might I add. New to me always get cleaned and springs replaced no matter what. Then lubed correctly.
|
New springs and clean is key. Ched 2 1/2" Ched 209 19grs Unique Z16 wad 1oz lead fit nicely and function all my older A5's and also the new model. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 12:57 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 30 Jul 2012
Posts: 323
Location: Central, ND
|
|
Brewster11 wrote: |
OK hold on everyone. Yes a 2 1/2” A5 can be fussy with 7/8 oz loads…IF IT HASN’T BEEN CLEANED IN A HUNDRED YEARS!!
I’m just saying that after I dissembled the cranky old filthy dirty beat up gun show 2 1/2” A5 down to the tiny pins and springs and needles, and soaked everything in solvent then wirebrushed everything until my eyes hurt from the reflection, and then scooped out huge globs of grimy black gunk jam packed inside the receiver and then hosed down everything inside and out, the gun happily gobbles up little 7/8 loads like candy and that’s with the new stiff mag spring setting on HEAVY, and the recoil STILL stings my middle finger!! It’s crying for even LIGHTER loads!
Have fun, they are AWESOME guns,
B.
POST EDIT: Seriously, the problem is the grit gets forced into the tiny cavities, holes, slots, hollows, etc. which must be thoroughly cleaned out and polished with dental picks, pipe cleaners, copper wires and the like. It takes time and patience.
|
Go to Hobo Freight and buy an $80 ultrasonic cleaner and thank me later. I have cleaned a lot of old A5's and everyone has been gross. Mine will run 7/8 loads too, some of them I put the old recoil spring on to make them operate though. |
_________________ Browning 525 Sporting 16ga
Browning BPS Gr III 16ga |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Mon Mar 11, 2024 8:05 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 22 May 2020
Posts: 284
Location: Ky
|
|
All mine cycle the 7/8oz universal load posted in hodgdon load data. Good load! |
_________________ “Never use an ugly gun to kill a beautiful bird” |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 5:08 am
|
|
|
Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1927
Location: Central ND
|
|
We can argue over the 7/8 oz. loads, but the OP is looking for what 2 1/2" loads to use. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 10:31 am
|
|
|
Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 3207
Location: NCWa
|
|
MSM2019 wrote: |
but the OP is looking for what 2 1/2" loads to use.
|
I have several 2.5" loads that may work an A-5, but since I only shoot them in SxSs, it would only be a guess. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:13 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 148
Location: High Desert of SoCal
|
|
Gentlemen, as usual, you managed to jog my gray cells into action. I hadn't even thought about the power adjustable feature of the A-5. I quickly tore mine down and found the resistance rings set at "heavy" I have corrected that and will be checking to see if my present loads work. However, I will be cutting some of those purple federal hulls down to 21/2" and using Universal.
I'm thinking that since I shoot mainly skeet, I'm going to load #9 shot. My other lead shot is all reclaimed 7.5 and 8, none of which is very round. Seeing as skeet is shot up close, I'm not thinking that will be much of a problem.
Thanks for your thoughts.
BTW, the gun was immaculate inside and out. |
_________________ R J Talley
James Madison Fellow |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 1:14 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 08 Feb 2009
Posts: 1359
Location: Western WA
|
|
Quote: |
the OP is looking for what 2 1/2" loads to use.
|
If an A5 isn’t functioning with modest 2 1/2” Longshot loads, then there is a problem, and it is pointless to proceed further until it is cleared up. A thorough cleaning is the first step.
After that hurdle is passed, then many options are available for 2 1/2” loads. The 7/8 oz load is the easiest and most practical load for the 2 1/2” A5.
My pressure testing with the Pressure Trace II strain gauge system has shown that virtually any 2 1/2” 7/8 oz load in the 1200 fps range regardless of the powder will have pressures that fall far below the pressure of the most popular 16 ga factory game load. This includes fast 12 ga powders like Red Dot.
The 2 1/2” 7/8 oz loads should use straight wall hulls like Cheddite or Federal, the SG16 wad from BPI or Midway for good crimps, and whatever common shotgun powder like 700X or similar is available to you.
If you have access to a chronograph, aim for 1180 or 1200 fps. If you don’t have a chronograph, maybe start with 14 grains and see if your gun cycles. I would not exceed 16 grains without a chronograph. Slower powders like Longshot or Blue Dot might need 18 grains.
You can also go to 1 oz loads easily in 2 1/2” hulls, but they should be either published loads or lab tested. For 1 oz the wad should be the SG16S from BPI.
I will be conducting some 1 oz strain gauge pressure testing shortly, and I expect the pressures will be higher and the powder limits more exacting.
The bottom line is the 7/8 oz load is ideal for the 2 1/2” A5, very practical and easily reloaded.
Good Luck
B. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Tue Mar 12, 2024 3:27 pm
|
|
|
Joined: 26 May 2008
Posts: 148
Location: High Desert of SoCal
|
|
Thank you. I had been loading 1oz ahead of 20.5 grains of Longshot. I was concerned though, that the long burn time of longshot might not cycle the gun. then I discovered my friction ring was set up for heavy loads. I have found that with the six petal crimped Fiocchi hulls in 2.5 I cannot use the SG12 wad but have to use a Remington wad. If I roll crimp I can use the SG16. I have not tried the SG16S wad. I guess I'm going to have to give it a try.
I have Cheddite hulls (new, primed) and a gazillion of the Federal Purple hulls and about the same number of Remington Game Hulls. I have been trimming those down to 2.5".
I have Universal and International. I was given 8 lbs of 800X I'd love to use that even though I have to weigh each charge due to its crappy metering tendencies. |
_________________ R J Talley
James Madison Fellow |
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted:
Wed Mar 13, 2024 8:07 am
|
|
|
Member
Joined: 09 Jan 2013
Posts: 2183
Location: Florida
|
|
The use of Longshot and the Remington wad will have powder migration issues in any straight walled hull except for the Remington hull. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|