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mod11rem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 3:39 pm  Reply with quote
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There was a little box inserted in an auction notice Sunday. Several guns from a private collector for sale at auction price, no reserve. Listed was a Mod 311, 1897 Win, 2 Browning A-5's all in sixteen. It's a farm sale way out in the country, right in the middle of duck country. I have the distinct feeling that I might be the only one that shows up that's interested in the 16's as none of the duck hunters will be for sure. If no dealers show up, I might be able to latch on to some good trading material or make a real find. These sales still yield a good deal from time to time. I certainly don't need any more shotguns. However, I feel I owe it to the guys on this board to go and check it. If I come up with something good, I'll offer it up here first. It might be the find of the century and could be a total dud. I'll let you know.

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hoashooter
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 6:14 pm  Reply with quote
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If you don't go you'll end up kicking yourself in the butt
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H.H. Hipshot
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:46 pm  Reply with quote
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Mod 11,

I would be interested in the 97 Win., as long as it is in decent shootable shape.

I have never been able to hit anything with an A-5.

HHH

Jim.N.Wooten@juno.com

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RalphEGrant
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:13 pm  Reply with quote
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For the right gun and the right price, I would be interested in one of the A5's.

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Ralph Grant

Brning Cyn Sprting 12ga O/U,
Auto 5 12ga Belg, 16ga BPS, 20ga Citori, Beretta 3901 Target 12ga, AL391 Teknys Gld
DeHaan SO 16ga S2 12ga SXS's, Chaz Daly 20ga SXS, CZ Ringneck 28ga SXS
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CitoriFeather16
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 8:18 pm  Reply with quote
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Ralph: Duncan (britgun) has the "right" auto 5 on the "for sale" board. Pictures will be posted shortly, I believe.

Matt
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mod11rem
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 4:53 pm  Reply with quote
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I'm going to the sale. Setting up to be a perfect environment. Cold as hell with a threat of sleet/snow. Should keep all the sunday cowboys away. Plus it's way out in the country just south of a town of 422. Plus duck season is over and most of the good old boy hunters who have no interest in 16's anyway have shot their wad "literally" in terms of cash for the year, so they probably won't be there. Any dealer who shows up will be one hungry sob and unless he's really got a hole on the shelf that needs filling, shouldn't be much trouble. There's a Win mod 36 "garden gun" made for 9mm rimfire shotshells in this one too. No interest except that they only made about 20000 of them from about 1920 to 26 and there's not many of them around. Can still get shells made in Europe for them. Might be good trading material to a collector if I can steal it. I'm licking my chops. Hope to not be dissappointed. This is one of those rare chances tto come away with a couple of good guns at a good price. cash already in my pocket. I'll let you know. pt

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KyBrad16ga
PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 5:20 pm  Reply with quote
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mod11rem wrote:
I'm going to the sale. Setting up to be a perfect environment. Cold as hell with a threat of sleet/snow. This is one of those rare chances tto come away with a couple of good guns at a good price. cash already in my pocket. I'll let you know. pt


Good luck. I have gone to a few of those sales around here, sometimes you hit the jackpot, sometimes you don't.

Keep us posted about the 16's.

KB
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rayb
PostPosted: Sat Feb 10, 2007 5:24 pm  Reply with quote
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I sure hope you had some very good luck...

if it comes to pass and you decide to sell, i'll like a look at the '97 if the first gentlemen (H H Hipshot) declines..

thank you

rayb

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mod11rem
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:16 pm  Reply with quote
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Well here's how it went. As I expected there was more than one dealer present. Even tho it was cold as hell, quite a few folks showed up and were clearly interested in the guns.

It started off with the Mod 36 Win 9mm "garden gun". Those are pretty rare and this one was in 80-90% shape and had a half box of cartridges. The collectors bid on it and it went for $550 which I'm sure it was worth to a collector or reseller. To a shooter it was worthless.

Then, I thought everything would be out of reach. There were 4 16's that I would have or did bid on. The first was a Savage/Stevens 311. It was maybe 85% and not in nearly as good of shape as my Fox Model B. This $250 gun sold for an amazing $450. I dropped out at $275.

Then the Win 1897 came up. It was about 80% with a good bit of blue left. Definitely tight and used but not abused. It went for $500 to the same person who bought the Mod 36. Obviously a collector. Then the 1897 12 ga sold. It was much more used, no blue left and pretty banged up. A shooter for sure but a little loosey goosey. It went for $275.

They sold a few more. I bid on a Savage mod 24 in .357mag/20 ga. I've already got two of these and the .357 is kind of rare. I dropped out at $275 and it sold for $450. It was a less than $300 gun.

Then the two Browning A-5's came up. Neither of them sweets and pretty old. both about 75-85%, good working order, tight, used but not abused and both with 25.5" plain barrels. both used 2 3/4" shells with decent wood. ONe had a brown patina but neither scarred up or modified in any way that I could tell. With lesser value guns selling for way more than they were worth, I figured I couldn't touch either of them and feel good about it.

Wrong again. I got both of them. ONe is set up with sling swivels. I got one for $375 and the other for $425. Both good shooters with no problems.

Now what to do with them. I can't find my micrometer to check the chokes, but the barrels are both 2" shorter than the 1945 A-5 I picked up last summer. Serial #'s are 55645 and 81160 so both may be manufactured before 1939. The lower ser # has a hard rubber butt plate that says browning automatic (it's the one with the sling swivels). The other just has a hard rubber butt plate. Both say "Browning Arms Company Ogden Utah" on top of the barrell. the barrel on the 81160 ser gun is marked with three stars and says "16 special steel" and is marked 2 3/4. There are lots of other marks on both of them on the bolt and on a couple of screws that I have no idea what they mean. The barrel on the other gun has no markings other than "Browning Arms ..."

I think I'll just work on the wood a bit and clean 'em up really good. They both look like quail and dove killing machines. I may invest a little in bluing and varnish. Either or both would be good shooters to throw in the Airstream when I take off on the watermelon trail this spring. Or I might sell 'em both. I figured I couldn't get hurt buying two at an average of $400.

I didn't steal them, but I got them. later pt

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grousewoods
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 2:29 pm  Reply with quote



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I just went to auction on Sat and there was a 1897 16ga there that sold for $850.00 I didn't even get my hand up and it was there the same two guys had 4 win before it was over. funny they were both dressed in all blue with beards.I sure would have bid on your 1897 that went for $500. and sold it to the same two guys,mad money! Good luck with your brownings!
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Jeff Mulliken
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 3:16 pm  Reply with quote
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Mod 11,

Confirm they were both 16's?????? If so (originally) short chambered for sure, and the price you paid sounds just about where it should be

The numbers on the screw heads should be the last numbers of the serial number on the receiver. On the smaller screws the serial number is in the shank.

The 25 1/2" barrels are correct, short barrels on guns that early are less common.

*** means a factory cylinder bore, pretty rare and a great bird gun.

When I get home tonite I'll look up those numbers and get you the specifics on the dates.

Let me know the following:

16's?

Engraved? Yes or No

Does the buttplate that does not say Browning on it have FN initiels in the center with lines above and below it?

Look at the joint where the barrel extension protrudes from the receiver, do they both stick out the same distance? How far?

barrels numbered to the receiver?

plain or ribbed barrels? solid or vent?

Jeff
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Jeff Mulliken
PostPosted: Mon Feb 12, 2007 6:01 pm  Reply with quote
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If these are both 16's

55,645 was made in the second half of 1927

81,160 was made in 1929

Answer the ?'s in my last post and we'll see what else I can find out for you.

Jeff
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mod11rem
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 10:56 am  Reply with quote
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Jeff, I figured you'd weigh in here to help out.

Both are 16's. with plain barrels.

The 1929 gun is the one with the *** on the barrel. It is clearly marked 2 3/4 in on the barrel. A 2 3/4 shell fits on both fine. The numbers on the screws on either side are 1160, the last four digits of the serial number. On the barrel, right after the *** Special Steel marking appears What looks like 0 Kg873 then a funny mark that looks like a y laid over on it's side then an R with a * on top of it, then another mark then P.V, then E over and L and G with a * under the LG, All this ELG is inside an oval mark with what looks like a crown on top of it. then 16.65 inside another mark that looks like a sideways omega. On the bottom of the barrel is clearly says 16.8 choke then what looks like 16.7 is stamped next to that but not in line, this followed by another R (or maybe K) with a * on top of the letter. then another squigly sideways mark then the number 97 stamped vertically followed by a left pointing arrow and another mark. The other side of the barrel says Made in Belgium. On the bolt face 1160 is stamped and followed by 3 marks, one looks like a tower then an upside down hammer, then what looks like the Browning logo used today and the P.V These same marks are on the receiver by the release button but without the 1160. The butt plate looks to be original because it fits perfectly. However, it has a dogs head on it, off center about in the middle of the upper half of the plate. Dog has long ears like a Springer and has his tongue hanging out.

got to go right now, I'll give description of the 1927 gun later. Thanks for your help.

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mod11rem
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:33 pm  Reply with quote
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Jeff, I'm back. The other gun (1927) is similarly marked. However the barrel has 645 stamped into the bottom, matching the last 3 digits of the serial number. It also has "choke 16.7" stamped on the underside followed by an M with a star above it and then another strange stamped figure followed by 16.9. That's about it. This one actually shows less wear and wood is in better shape. None of the screws show any signs of being marred. I appreciate any info you can come up with on these two. paul

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mod11rem
PostPosted: Tue Feb 13, 2007 12:42 pm  Reply with quote
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Jeff, I didn't answer all your questions. both plain barrels. the barrel extensions protrude about 1/8 inch on both. Of course both have "Fabrique Nationale etc." on the receiver. the 1927 buttplate does have FN in big letters in the center with Browning written on the edge same side as the bolt and Automatic written down the other side. This is the one with the sling swivels. attached to end cap and into stock. Pretty ugly, but oh well. thanks pt

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