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< 16ga. Ammunition & Reloading ~ Hello and Unique Formula Sought |
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Posted:
Wed Jan 15, 2025 8:46 am
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Joined: 16 Sep 2024
Posts: 5
Location: Oxford, MD
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Hello everyone. My account recently got approved and this is my first post. I recently acquired a 16 John Dickson boxlock and would like to load light practice loads for it. The gun has been re-proofed for 2 3/4", but only eighs 5 lb 12 oz. I would like to keep the velocity down around 1100-1150 FPS and load 7/8 or 3/4 oz. I have a bunch of Unique, but in looking in the Low Pressure 16 Ga spread sheets have not found my load. I will probably buy primed Cheddite hulls. 2 1/2" or 2 3/4" would be OK. Has anyone worked-up such a load and would be willing to share? If not, I will experiment with 18-20 grains of Unique.
Thanks for any help. |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:45 am
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Member

Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2415
Location: West MI
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Welcome aboard, I do not have any loads developed for what you ask. FYI; IMO Unique is a terrible powder for what you are looking to do, I'd advise sending it all to me and I will dispose of it properly : )
Aside, looking at data I have there are few non-BPI Unique sub 1oz loads not traveling at the speed of light. Found a couple in the Fed (straight walled hull) page for reference that suggest you starting below 18gr to get in the speed range desired but probably very low pressure and probably shoot dirty, guessing...
Fed 16 Plas 1 oz. Unique 18.5 Fed 209 Rem R 16 1165 8,100 Hercules
Fed 16 Plas 1 oz. Unique 18.0 Fed 209A BPI Z-16 1181 9,400 Precision reloading
Fed 16 Plas 7/8 oz. Unique 18.3 Win 209 DR 16 1230
BPI for reference....
Cheddite 3/4 oz. Unique 20.0 Ched 209 BPI Z 16 1355 9,100 BPI
Cheddite 7/8 oz. Unique 22.0 Ched 209 BP Z-16+1/8" 20Ga Felt wad 1375 9,000 BPI
Again, welcome, hope this helps get that John Dickson boxlock back in the game. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:02 am
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Member

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 441
Location: Too far south in New England
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Hello & welcome!
My experimentation with a 3/4 oz Unique load (20gr) yielded a load around 1200 fps, but very inconsistent and, like Putz alluded to, very dirty (unburned powder). A 7/8 oz load might slow it down and get a better burn.
Cheddite hull
CH209
20gr Unique
SG16 w/filler (I used Airsoft pellets at the time, but nitro cards would likely be better)
3/4 oz lead
My recommendation would be to use 7/8 oz and start with 17gr Unique. You might get lucky. I found Unique to work best with 1 oz loads.
Again, welcome! This is a great group. |
_________________ "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 7:22 am
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1990
Location: Central ND
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This is my opinion. Save the Unique for 1 oz. loads. 7/8 and 3/4 oz. loads just aren't in Unique's wheel house especially at 1100 to 1150 FPS. You can make powders do things they aren't meant to, but there will be a downside(s) to that. In this case it will probably be poor cold weather performance, excessive fouling in the bore and possibly using more powder just to get reasonable performance.
If you absolutely MUST use Unique, try and find some of the older Remington Game Load hulls as they have a fairly high basewad, thick walls which leads to less volume and higher chamber pressures.(the new Rem hulls are actually the same as Federal). Data is still going to be an issue.
You might call Precision Reloading LLC @ 800-223-0900. They might have some data. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 9:22 am
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Joined: 16 Sep 2024
Posts: 5
Location: Oxford, MD
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Thanks everyone for your thoughts and welcomes. Sounds like Unique is not ideal for this load. I do have a pound of GreenDot and it looks like there is more published data for 7/8 oz low speed loads with that powder. I've found some references to 7/8 loads using 14.2 to 15.5 grains. Thoughts? |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 12:05 pm
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Member

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 441
Location: Too far south in New England
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Green Dot may not be it either. Additionally, GD's formula was changed and the newer version apparently has higher pressures. I used to shoot it for practice at 1350 fps in 3/4 oz. I have not tried GD in your desired speed range, but the spreadsheets show a load that might work, though this is likely with the old version of the powder:
Cheddite hull
Win 209
16.3 gr GD
CB078 wad
7/8 oz
1150 fps
8200
I have not tried this load, so use at your own risk.
I believe the newer version comes with a green cap, and the older with a black cap. I did not have problems with either, but I was using a modern gun.
I think the powder you would want is International, though that is unobtainium right now. I would think Clay Dot would be an option as well.
FWIW, I have shot 7/8 oz @1165 in my 1921 Flues without issue using Unique and Remington older black hulls, which we call RGLs. Still slightly dirty but tolerable.
From the spreadsheet:
RGL
Win209
15.4 gr Unique
SP16
1165 fps
7866 psi
I did not verify the speed, but it broke clays well enough and I intend to use it for woodcock with the Flues. |
_________________ "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 3:14 pm
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Joined: 04 Mar 2019
Posts: 1990
Location: Central ND
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Green Dot is a much better powder for the application.
There have been some issues with the older Green Dot data, but that concerns 1 oz. loads. There has never been a problem using Green Dot with 3/4 and 7/8 oz. loads. |
_________________ Mark...You are entitled to your own opinion. You aren't entitled to your own facts. |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 4:02 pm
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Member

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 441
Location: Too far south in New England
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Ok, thanks for clarifying that. I had not played with GD in that speed range but thought of it as an only slightly faster powder than Unique. If I had any GD left I would probably see what it could do. |
_________________ "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:35 pm
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Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Posts: 180
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What powder would you reccomend? |
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Posted:
Thu Jan 16, 2025 8:36 pm
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Joined: 13 Apr 2017
Posts: 180
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What powder would you reccomend? |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 3:59 am
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Member

Joined: 06 Oct 2007
Posts: 2415
Location: West MI
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If I were looking at this beyond simply burning up the on hand Unique. I'd peruse the data sheets and find what powders do what is desired then go to Hodgdons reloading data center and do the same. After finding that most suggested powders for the task at hand are either unobtainium or obsolete I'd visit a current burn rate chart and find what similar powders fit the range that the research suggests then find a currently available powder in that speed range that is "commonly" used in shotguns. In my stumbling this path it seems as though VitN330 might be worth spending some time with. |
_________________ Sorry, I'm a Duck Hunter so shouldn't be held strictly responsible for my actions between Oct 1st and ice up. |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 4:59 am
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Member

Joined: 19 May 2006
Posts: 441
Location: Too far south in New England
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Using that logic, based on what I saw in the spreadsheets, International was a good choice. I had thought Clay Dot was the Alliant version of that but it’s not according to the burn chart (it’s more akin to Clays). Right near International on the chart is Vih320 and WSH, both of which are available. Green Dot is much further up than I thought, so that is likely a better option than Unique as Mark said.
I’m partial to American Select, which again is unavailable, but close to that is Titegroup/High Gun. Having not played in the OP’s desired speed range this is all conjecture, but I personally would start there and see what results I could get from some loads tested by Precision. |
_________________ "You keep saying that word. I do not think it means what you think it means" - Inigo Montoya |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 5:25 am
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Member

Joined: 10 Dec 2006
Posts: 207
Location: Barkhamsted, CT
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I have been loading RST 2 1/2" shells with 17.8 gns. of Unique for an old hammer double.
Works great. Fits pretty well.
SG-16 wad 360 grains of #9 with Cheddite primer.
Fold crimp.
I did not have them tested.
Jim |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:40 am
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Joined: 16 Sep 2024
Posts: 5
Location: Oxford, MD
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Thanks very much for everyone's replies. Due to the powder shortage situation I think I'll go with my existing Green Dot in the 15-17 grain range and have them tested. |
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Posted:
Fri Jan 17, 2025 7:42 am
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Joined: 16 Sep 2024
Posts: 5
Location: Oxford, MD
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I just bought a flat of RST 16 ga 7/8 oz 1125 FPS. I wonder which powder they use? |
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