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Joined: 25 Dec 2024 Posts: 1

Hi,
I want to reload 16 ga shotshells with blackpowder and steelshot (no lead allowed in Holland).
Can I use plastic wads with blackpowder?
I will get some residue of the plastic, but after howmany shot I have to clean the barrel so pressure will not rise to much?
I'm using a Husqvarna 16 Rolling Block with 100 cm barrel.
With regards,

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

Use this search and there is lots of information out there if no one here knows. This search will also pick up forum groups where people will have more extensive knowledge

https://www.google.com/search?q=black+powder+steel+shot+loads&rlz=1C1CHBF_enUS912US912&oq=black+powder+steel+&gs_lcrp=EgZjaHJvbWUqBwgAEAAYgAQyBwgAEAAYgAQyCggBEEUYFhgeGDkyCAgCEAAYFhgeMggIAxAAGBYYHjIICAQQABgWGB4yCAgFEAAYFhgeMgYIBhBFGDwyBggHEEUYPNIBCDgwMDBqMGo3qAIAsAIA&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

this thread is of particular interest

https://www.muzzleloadingforum.com/threads/steel-shot-question.106698/

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2434 Location: West MI

Welcome aboard, this older thread may help a little with your inquiry.

http://www.16ga.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=14179&sid=f72407041bd9e3668080c7f931bd546b

What speed are you looking for with the BlackPowder/SteelShot combo?

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

The reason that the OP is wanting to stick with BP is he is using an old rolling block that was converted to a shotgun. They are safe with BP pressures that stay within the design specs, even though some countries did use them with smokeless powder loads.

I am not sure what using steel shot with BP would do pressure wise. I have shot 1000's of heavy BP loads, up through 45-110's with 540 gr bullets, but those were in cartridges that the design was built for.

If it was me, and I was pursuing this, I would have the action tested and the loads tested for pressure before ever firing one of the loads in the gun.

The problem with those old rolling blocks is age. If they have a metallurgical failure, the results can be catastrophic.

There are some pictures that survived the ages down in this thread. It is thought that the person who did it may have fired A round that shouldn't have been anywhere near the gun. He didn't make it. When a RB fails, it blows the breech block back through your eye and into your brain.

https://castboolits.gunloads.com/showthread.php?20407-Fatal-Rolling-Block-Failure-in-Sweden

Joined: 03 Sep 2014 Posts: 406 Location: Rochester, MN

Thinking about my experience reloaded 16 gauge steel, I sincerely doubt that this is an easily solved problem.

The volume of a 16 gauge, 2 3/4" cartridge is just too small. An effective 16 gauge steel shot load uses about 25-27 grains of modern Alliant Steel powder and 7/8" of steel shot. (VP 80 wad)

I fail to see how there is enough volume available to accommodate enough black powder to provide the energy necessary to obtain sufficient velocity for an effective load.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

It takes 105 to 110 grains of black powder to drive a 540 gr bullet to the 1300 fps range. (540 = 1.23429 oz). For me, that is a very dense compressed charge in a 45.110 case (45 caliber x 2 7/8" long). The bullet is seated roughly (I haven't loaded in a while so this is a SWAG from memory) 1/2 deep into the case.

This is roughly 63 shells per pound. That can kind of give you the uncompressed volume idea.

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1393 Location: Western WA

John, since the VP80 has no crush section, it might free up enough space for a 1200 fps 7/8 oz steel BP load. Bismuth would also reduce the volume of the load, as would a 3/4 oz steel load.

B.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

I wonder what happened to the OP. Maybe decided that shooting that rolling block in the manner he asking about was a bit of a risky move ?

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2434 Location: West MI

Possibly lost interest for whatever reason or rarely visits the sight. Regardless, still an interesting academic exercise, so in rough terms using this 45/100 reference (*from memory) 107gr BP fits in ~0.37 cubic inches pushing 1.2oz mass. Spitballing the available internal volume of a 16ga hull at ~.78 cubic inches. a full BP1680/VP80 taking up ~.6"cubed leaves ~.18 of space for powder ~1/2 that of a 45-100 shell pushing a 1.2oz bullet so we end up with ~50gr BP pushing an ~.8oz mass in VERY ROUGH terms but seemingly able to fit in a 16ga hull...referring to the GOEX chart...

https://goexpowder.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/06/mlss.pdf

Might end up in the .8-1k FPS area.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

I would not hesitate to shoot a 45-100 in a RB. I have shot a 45-90 RB.

I actually still have a 45-90, 100, 110 and a custom chambered 42-100 recreation of a 42-100 Wesson I designed.

I shoot Shiloh Sharps and CPA Stevens

BUT

Those old Rollers, that is a different story running something through them that they weren't designed for. As I mentioned above, the RB action is not the strongest. If you ever looked at one without the barrel breech and locking block, you could see how open they actually are

There are shoots out West, one being "The Quigley" that is centered around the late 1800 design rifles. All too often an accident happens.

The last big one that I read about was a guy pushed the rifle he gave his wife to shoot. Had there not been a doctor on site, she would have lost the hand. As it was it took many surgeries and such.

They were designed for black powder and soft (20-1) lead bullets. A 16ga is opening the barrel up pretty much and then putting steel in (which won't compress) is just asking for trouble.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

Rollers also depend on a rotary camming motion to lock the breech. There have reports of rifles that for some unknown reason self open the blocks and eject the shell back at the shooters face.

There used to be a guy that built high end rollers for the BPCR folks. Started around $2500.00. I shot one of those 1 time in a 90. It was wrong for me and hurt to shoot.

Beautiful gun though.

Used to be, unfortunately he stuck a loaded AR15 in the car/truck and pulled it out at himself barrel first and got the Darwin Award. A momentary lapse cost him his life.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

42-100, 45-100, 45-70, 40-82

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Joined: 26 Apr 2010 Posts: 3232 Location: NCWa

About 50 years ago I wondered what it was like to shoot a cartridge with blackpowder. I took a 270 Win case, filled it with FFg seated a 130 grain cast bullet pointed the Ruger 77 into a safe direction and pressed the trigger. WHAT A MESS. It took several cleanings to get all the soot out of the rifle. I have no idea what the pressure or velocity was- there was just this big cloud of smoke. Never did that again.

Joined: 09 Dec 2012 Posts: 740

Big clouds of smoke is what told the enemy "Here I am, shoot me" plus the fouling issue. If you know how to clean it's not that bad but you still have to do it before leaving the range. When I go to matches, I take gallon jugs of water with dishsoap in it to throw the brass in so it starts cleaning. You can't leave it as black powder residue is corrosive. It will eat up brass and barrels.

It's a science to get them to shoot accurately and control the fouling in a match.