16ga.com ~ View topic

Joined: 08 Feb 2009 Posts: 1537 Location: Western WA

Full disclosure: This concerns my 28 ga but applies to 16 ga.
Which is the preferred installation of card spacers:
1) Over shot
2) Under shot
3) Over powder

Seems like over shot cards could disrupt the shot pattern, similar to spreader devices but not as severe.

Now for my obligatory grumble: Does any published source of shotgun reloading data have any idea what a proper crimp looks like?

TIA
B.

It depends…

Normally I would put it under the shot. If I feel like I need to have the shot cup protect the payload I’ll put it under the wad. Rarely if ever above the shot. But I may put a few airsoft bbs on top.

MEC literature specifies crimp depth.

Over shot card is so beneficial.

Better crimps , increase uniformity , does not interfere with patterns .

Regards Nick

Patterning a shotgun on paper is a 2 dimensional representation of a 3 dimensional event.

Unless shooting at a stationary target like a Turkeys head it serves little to no purpose.

Regards Nick

Joined: 01 Oct 2007 Posts: 1047 Location: Minnesota

I’ve used cards in the shot cup and on top of shot. Both seem to work just fine. Over the shot often helps make a nice flat crimp.

Member Joined: 08 Nov 2005 Posts: 3526 Location: Illinois

Drop it on top----load as usual.

Member Joined: 06 Oct 2007 Posts: 2545 Location: West MI

"Which is preferred..." anywhere they are needed. On top for tighter fold and/or contain buffer from leaking or to complete a roll crimp. Stacked in the column for a bit of disruption/spread similar to the older stacked fiber and card loads. Under for filler and/or to minimize pellets sticking in the wad plastic.

FWIW; when patterning my roll crimped loads (I use OSC's cut from waxed milk or juice cartons) SxS with folded steel and bismuth in 16 & 10ga I see little to no difference in patterns @40+y. The OSC's are found usually 5-15y from the bench and the plastic wads fall out of the sky around 25-35y.

The MEC owners manual usually have pictures of what crimps do or should look like and suggestions on how to adjust things accordingly. RFS & Lyman books have pics but all the ones I have are pretty grainy and of little help.

Visualize what the underside of a star/pie crimp -- how it projects into the shot column, especially a 6-pointer. Cut the crimped end off of a good factory load and see what it looks like. This will show why a card over the shot but under a star/pie crimp is a poor idea and a waste of space. A card of any stiffness at all, even a .020 paper card, restricts the crimp folds from penetrating down into the shot as they need to do. The only reason to put any thing under a pie crimp is to keep buffer from escaping. Then it should be a thin, flexible membrane such as Tyvek, which offers little restriction to the crimp folds.

The need for a card over the shot when using a roll crimp or a Hartin crimp is obvious: There is no roll or Hartin closure without one. Using the Spred-R device? If you put no shot on top of it, it works best to roll crimp right over it, which also gives the benefit of clearly showing the shell is a spreader load. If you pie crimp over an overshot card or a Spred-R, the crimp folds bear against the center of that "card" and produce a crimp that wants to unfold, unless you leave more room for the fold. If you allow enough space to make a flat crimp result, you've have approximately 3/16 inch of space above the Spred-R or hard card with nothing in it but the crimp folds. This is wasted space that has to be accommodated somewhere else in the wad column. If you put some shot on top of the Spred-R device, then a nice, space-efficient pie crimp can be made because the crimp folds can penetrate into the shot.

Joined: 09 Feb 2015 Posts: 941

I shoot trap durring summer. Strictly games. Strictly 16 ga. With 525 32" bl. 1oz shot. Highgun powder for on the pad 16yd to 25yrd. 2028 26 on to oblivion or what ever it take. I make enough to pay my shooting fees for the night and a little pocket change. Not near the shooters that used to be. High prices killed the sport. Daddy and mommy could not maintain the cost for the basement dwellers any longer. Hammer

So I had to use the card on top option this AM.

Long story short, it seemed to work fine with a little tweaking during the loading. I still prefer it under the shot, but in a pinch I feel pretty confident it will work.

I bought one of the new Sweet 16s with poly stock so I can use it on rainy day matches and muddy days in the duck blind. It does not like my 3/4 oz loads so I am breaking it in with my match recipe which is normally 1oz of lead with an x-treme spreader. But I’m out of the spreaders and I don’t want to use up my match loads as I have a few matches left this season. So I needed to take up some space with a 28ga hard card. The cards fit great in a DR16, but not as well in a SG16. On top they went for a great crimp.

What I found was that, like Max said, the folds cannot bite into the lead, so they tend to want to open when against the card. And because I’m using an auto loader I want the crimps finished. I made an initial crimp using the size master, stuck it in the finish station of the 9000, then back to the size master crimp held for 3 seconds, or just a double pump on the handle. Either worked well and made for some nice flat crimps on new hulls. Broke clays with authority using an IC choke.

Joined: 04 Mar 2019 Posts: 2180

I agree 100% with Maximum Smoke.

I have never seen a good reason to use over shot cards with a fold crimp load.

If a load needs a filler to provide the correct wad column height the cards, felt or fiber wads should go underneath the shot.

For keeping in buffer, tyvek is the way to go. It keeps the buffer in without changing wad column height or messing with the fold crimp. Precision Reloading sells what they call Tight Seal for the job.